[HellaMO7S]

Like many of you, I still have not received a production date on my Lightning order, so I have been checking on my order page with Ford multiple times a day.

This Monday, I noticed that the price on the order had changed - suddenly there was a $5K dealer mark up that I had been assured was not coming.

I specifically chose the dealership I'm working with because they have a reputation locally of being the easiest to work with, and because of their volume with truck fleet sales, generally the best bottom line pricing, so it's safe to say the sudden price increase caught me off guard.

I called the dealership and after promising to call me back the next day, they finally called me back three days later.

The internet sales guy, Todd, told me that the dealership never wanted to sell electric at all and that Ford had kept them in the dark about pricing, invoices, etc. and that when they got the pricing, that the MSRP was identical to the invoice and that the dealership wouldn't make any money selling the car at sticker price.

He also told me that the sales manager had spoken to the sales managers at all of the other local dealerships, and that everyone was doing an ADM and they were the lowest. (All that really sounds like to me is coordinated price gouging)

Can any of the folks with dealership connections weigh in on this? Is there any truth? Or is this guy just trying to screw me (and the other 24 people who ordered a Lightning)?

 

[Ron]

My dealer NY told me the same story couple of months ago, he said they are not making any money on the Lightning. I didn't believe him then but now ...who knows..maybe it's the truth.
They asking for $2,500 over MSRP
My order is olready in with built date of today 5/19

 

[surferjoe]

My dealer NY told me the same story couple of months ago, he said they are not making any money on the Lightning. I didn't believe him then but now ...who knows..maybe it's the truth.
They asking for $2,500 over MSRP
My order is olready in with built date of today 5/19

Like many of you, I still have not received a production date on my Lightning order, so I have been checking on my order page with Ford multiple times a day.

This Monday, I noticed that the price on the order had changed - suddenly there was a $5K dealer mark up that I had been assured was not coming.

I specifically chose the dealership I'm working with because they have a reputation locally of being the easiest to work with, and because of their volume with truck fleet sales, generally the best bottom line pricing, so it's safe to say the sudden price increase caught me off guard.

I called the dealership and after promising to call me back the next day, they finally called me back three days later.

The internet sales guy, Todd, told me that the dealership never wanted to sell electric at all and that Ford had kept them in the dark about pricing, invoices, etc. and that when they got the pricing, that the MSRP was identical to the invoice and that the dealership wouldn't make any money selling the car at sticker price.

He also told me that the sales manager had spoken to the sales managers at all of the other local dealerships, and that everyone was doing an ADM and they were the lowest. (All that really sounds like to me is coordinated price gouging)

Can any of the folks with dealership connections weigh in on this? Is there any truth? Or is this guy just trying to screw me (and the other 24 people who ordered a Lightning)?

They are just being greedy and screwing with you. What kind of sales team says "we don't even want to sell you this product"? And why would you want to deal with them? Contact Ford corporate and move your order, unless you're happy paying more to people who are essentially lying to you

 

[TadCurious]

This has been published elsewhere in the forum, but be assured the dealer is making money on each vehicle. I recall they also get 1% on dealer financing.

 

[sameye4m]

My dealer did this when I placed my order. They wrote it by hand on “purchase order” so ford can’t see it on the official ordering tool. It was also 5K. It was either I accept this or walk away without the truck, so they know they can get away with this easily. My dealer also tried to scare me by telling me there are people ready to pay him 20k over MSRP just to get ahead of the line. Which is BS, because you can’t order without an invite. But if that’s true, I don’t see what’s stopping him from canceling my purchase when the car gets delivered and selling it themselves for a lot more than the 5k they’re getting from me.

 

[surferjoe]

My dealer did this when I placed my order. They wrote it by hand on “purchase order” so ford can’t see it on the official ordering tool. It was also 5K. It was either I accept this or walk away without the truck, so they know they can get away with this easily. My dealer also tried to scare me by telling me there are people ready to pay him 20k over MSRP just to get ahead of the line. Which is BS, because you can’t order without an invite. But if that’s true, I don’t see what’s stopping him from canceling my purchase when the car gets delivered and selling it themselves for a lot more than the 5k they’re getting from me.

The order is with you, the purchaser, not the dealer. So, the order can be moved to another dealer and the original dealer likely loses that allocation because you are moving the order in response to the ADM.

Most legacy automakers selling EVs are facing this issue due to (A) the high demand for EVs and (B) the legacy dealership models, which provide the dealerships with some room on final sales price.

Watch for legacy automakers to start dismantling the dealership model because of these abuses (e.g., VW will likely set up the Scout brand outside of its traditional VW dealership model and bypass its VW dealerships).

 

[HellaMO7S]

2022 Ford Lightning Invoice Pricing Is Totally Weird

TL;DR:

• 1% of MSRP paid to dealers as a delivery allowance for every delivery
• 1% of MSRP for adhering to advertising rules like not listing Lightnings under MSRP
• 1.5% of MSRP as "floorplan assistance" (i.e. financing dealer inventory)
• 0.5% of MSRP for "Tier 2 Pass-Through" for certain marketing costs
• 0.5% of MSRP for "Tier 3 Co-Op," which refers to subsidized advertising
• 0.9% of MSRP for "FCP," which rewards sales achievement targets
• 3.1% of MSRP for compliance with Ford's EV certification requirements
• 1.5% of MSRP for an unspecified "Customer Onboarding Payment"

1% + 1% + 1.5% + 0.5% + 0.5% + 0.9% + 3.1% + 1.5% = 10%

MSRP = $80,754.00

10% of $80,754.00 = $8,075.40

$8K+ sounds like a profit without a markup to me.

 

[sameye4m]

The order is with you, the purchaser, not the dealer. So, the order can be moved to another dealer and the original dealer likely loses that allocation because you are moving the order in response to the ADM.

Most legacy automakers selling EVs are facing this issue due to (A) the high demand for EVs and (B) the legacy dealership models, which provide the dealerships with some room on final sales price.

Watch for legacy automakers to start dismantling the dealership model because of these abuses (e.g., VW will likely set up the Scout brand outside of its traditional VW dealership model and bypass its VW dealerships).

That’s true when you’re a reservation holder, you can go anywhere you want with it. Until you place your order online, which shows no ADM if I might add, then the dealer has you by the short hairs. They control whether to “accept” your order or not

 

[Obi66]

That’s true when you’re a reservation holder, you can go anywhere you want with it. Until you place your order online, which shows no ADM if I might add, then the dealer has you by the short hairs. They control whether to “accept” your order or not

I would look around this forum for more information, but I believe sameye4 is correct - the Reservation is movable, the Order is not. I was told by Ford I would have to have the dealer cancel my order to move it to another dealer. They will not do this because they lose the allocation. As of right now, I have no ADM, but I think it is highly likely that the dealer will add an ADM at purchase. I know the local dealers are, if not colluding, at least all in agreement to charge an ADM. This is why I did not move my reservation - I couldn't be guaranteed that I would get MSRP and I was afraid to lose my Wave 2 order.

I am very much looking forward to what this group has to say about how to combat the dealers when the time comes for final negotiations with the dealers. I know many of you will have some great ideas for me.....

 

[joeclark38]

Like many of you, I still have not received a production date on my Lightning order, so I have been checking on my order page with Ford multiple times a day.

This Monday, I noticed that the price on the order had changed - suddenly there was a $5K dealer mark up that I had been assured was not coming.

I specifically chose the dealership I'm working with because they have a reputation locally of being the easiest to work with, and because of their volume with truck fleet sales, generally the best bottom line pricing, so it's safe to say the sudden price increase caught me off guard.

I called the dealership and after promising to call me back the next day, they finally called me back three days later.

The internet sales guy, Todd, told me that the dealership never wanted to sell electric at all and that Ford had kept them in the dark about pricing, invoices, etc. and that when they got the pricing, that the MSRP was identical to the invoice and that the dealership wouldn't make any money selling the car at sticker price.

He also told me that the sales manager had spoken to the sales managers at all of the other local dealerships, and that everyone was doing an ADM and they were the lowest. (All that really sounds like to me is coordinated price gouging)

Can any of the folks with dealership connections weigh in on this? Is there any truth? Or is this guy just trying to screw me (and the other 24 people who ordered a Lightning)?

1. Get everything in writing. If the purchase agreement could've been in writing, signed by the dealer, with the final sale price, that would've been optimal. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, so that does you no good now, but at least get everything else from the dealer in writing. EDIT: In case you only hear from the dealer verbally, such as through future phone calls, document everything they said and send that to them in an email immediately afterwards, saying that what you sent was your understanding from your conversation, and directing them to reply to the email (i.e., in writing) if anything you sent was inaccurate. If they only try communicating over the phone, just repeat the process until they finally put something down in writing.

2. It sounds like they're admitting to coordinating pricing with competitors (other dealers), which is essentially cartel-like behavior. Cartels are illegal, but proving a cartel is really difficult, as you have to prove criminal intent. But their actions could at least warrant a consumer complaint to some level of authorities (e.g., your state Attorney General). That kind of report, and a potential inquiry, could help pressure them to honor their agreed upon price. And if not, it might at least help prevent future price gouging.

3. Switch dealers if you can. I'm no expert on how easy it is to switch orders (if it can even be done), but if they're saying they never wanted to sell EVs in the first place then they're not worth your time. Any kind of questions or repairs you may have about your future Lightning would be best directed at a dealer who actually tries to show some legitimate interest in Ford's biggest vehicle in a century.

 

[Vandy1981]

This Monday, I noticed that the price on the order had changed - suddenly there was a $5K dealer mark up that I had been assured was not coming.

Are you seeing the $5K number in the "Difference from Total MSRP" field on the Ford web site? There's nothing stopping them from adding ADM at the time of purchase, but this is the first time I've heard of them changing the price on the web site after the order is placed.

If the dealer had posted ADM at the time of your order you could have switched your invite to another dealer. Unfortunately, since you've already placed the order you don't have any recourse unless @Ford Motor Company steps in on your behalf. It's a win-win for the dealer because they can either a) extract an extra $5K from you or b) sell your vehicle to someone else for a higher markup.

This happened to someone else and they were able to get some traction by calling the corporate customer service number at the bottom of the order page. Depending on your state, you may also have basis for a bait-and-switch complaint.

I would harbor no sympathy for the dealer. The dealer revenue structure was widely available as early as 10/2021 and they should be making around 10% on your purchase for essentially zero work or liability. If they can't support their operations under a reservation-to-order system, they need to either opt out of selling EVs or restructure how they run their business.

 

[BeeLightning]

I think this is BS. If you had agreement I would complain. You should pay the price at the time you ordered.

 

[Voltz]

Several posters on here, including me, got verbal ‘no ADM’ commitments. But, were unable to get anything more than an order sheet (dealer policy) and the online order page from FoMoCo. Of course, that occurs after the dealer locked in their allotment of that unit by accepting the order.

 

[ChasingCoral]

As shown above, the “no profit” excuse is total bs. Did you save a copy of the order as they accepted it? You should take that to Ford and tell them everything the dealer told you and that the price was jacked up after the dealer accepted the order.

 

[Okchamali]

So my dealer

As shown above, the “no profit” excuse is total bs. Did you save a copy of the order as they accepted it? You should take that to Ford and tell them everything the dealer told you and that the price was jacked up after the dealer accepted the order.

My dealer added a $10k adm. placed my order at MSRP. Ford said the dealer sets the prices, sorry.

 

[BeeLightning]

My dealer added a $10k adm. placed my order at MSRP. Ford said the dealer sets the prices, sorry.

Yes, you will always place order at MSRP. Then dealer should just sell at that price. But they do get the chance to add to it. You and the dealer have to agree on a price when ordering.

Its why i have heard some instances of the dealer not wanting to put it writing. smh

 

[RandyManSD]

HellaMO7S, did you place an order and then have the order summary (pricing and options) show up on your ford account where MSRP and dealer selling price are the same? There is even a row that states "difference from total MSPR". Here is what my order looks like:

That is bad and deceptive business practices if your dealer changed the pricing after your order was placed? I would call ford and complain.

I'm now nervous my dealer will add an ADM once my truck is ready for pick up (I have a 8/15 production date). I do have an email from my dealer stating they were NOT going to add an ADM (or any other additional fees) prior to placing my order, so maybe that gives me some hope.

Good luck HellaMO7S!

 

[taxmanhog]

Shameful practices occurring with some of these dealers, I'm expecting a similar hammer drop when my Lightning arrives.

 

[Karlos]

Don’t forget “Holdback” a hidden dealer credit of typically 3% that dealers get from auto companies. No profit is BS

 

[surferjoe]

Just saw this in a recent article, which aligns with several comments in this thread: "Farley also mentioned that Ford's electric vehicles will be sold "100% online," and prices will be fixed and non-negotiable." Here's the link: Ford CEO Forecasts $25,000 EV Price War, Brand's Future EVs Sold Online