So I've ordered my F150 Lightning and opted for the Standard battery. I'm curious if down the road 5 to 8 years, as battery prices drop too, can I upgrade from the Standard and replace with the Extended battery? Is the compartment they are stored in different or smaller? Is there any other technical stuff that would prevent this? I expect that battery technology with evolve rapidly in the next 10 years. We may have third-party solid-state replacement batteries too that are made to replace the OEM batteries, that give longer ranges and other benefits. Anyone else thinking about this or have insight into the possibilities? Thanks, Redeye.
Standard battery vs Extended battery question - Can I replace later, the Standard with the Extended battery?
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Anything might be possible in a few years, but it's hard to know where battery technology will be. It will all depend on how well the truck bodies hold up. More than likely in many years the truck won't be worth the cost of a new battery. Current batteries approaching the 7+ year age still seem to be holding above 70% capacity. However it is estimated there could be a secondary market for used car batteries having a life as house backup, etc. which might facilitate replacements being worth it.
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning Lariat ER
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IIRC The current cost of a Mustang Mach E battery is about $27,000. Remember that replacing the battery may necessitate swapping some other components and new programming. It will be an involved process. Possible, just don’t expect it to be plug-n-play.
No. You will not be able to upgrade the pack.
That is a problem right now with the aging Model S'. The cars with the smaller packs took a significant hit in resale value, the smaller packs did not age as well, and it is not possible to put the larger packs in those cars. You can get them pretty cheap now, so I have been asked a lot for a system to make this happen.
The problem is multi-faceted. The suspensions are different to deal with the different weight of the packs, the pack size in different physically, it would not fit anyway, and there are a ton of electronics that are mated to pack size. It is way cheaper to just get rid of the small pack car and buy one with a larger pack.
I have been in the EV business for over 25 years. The advice I give anybody buying an EV; ALWAYS go for the larger pack. If you do not, you will wish you had. Guaranteed. You will then want to upgrade to a vehicle with the larger pack, and take a bath when you sell your small-pack truck. Few people want them.
That is a problem right now with the aging Model S'. The cars with the smaller packs took a significant hit in resale value, the smaller packs did not age as well, and it is not possible to put the larger packs in those cars. You can get them pretty cheap now, so I have been asked a lot for a system to make this happen.
The problem is multi-faceted. The suspensions are different to deal with the different weight of the packs, the pack size in different physically, it would not fit anyway, and there are a ton of electronics that are mated to pack size. It is way cheaper to just get rid of the small pack car and buy one with a larger pack.
I have been in the EV business for over 25 years. The advice I give anybody buying an EV; ALWAYS go for the larger pack. If you do not, you will wish you had. Guaranteed. You will then want to upgrade to a vehicle with the larger pack, and take a bath when you sell your small-pack truck. Few people want them.
PRO IcedBlueSilver - TowTech, MaxTow, 9.6kwProPower: RECEIVED Aug23rd
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agreed, as the 'upgraded' battery pack for the LIGHTNING has more equipment involved, such as two INVERTERS and a much larger CHARGER... it's not just 'another' size battery pack, and hence the exagerated price for the upgrade.
Dang, this is why I'm asking now. To see if there is a path forward as battery technologies evolve and pricing improves with technical innovation. Thanks for the detailed response.
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They way I'm looking at this, is hopefully, resale will be high since the first major manufacturer electric truck; will just need to upgrade if that breakthrough comes.
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning Lariat ER
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Possible, sure. Just check out this post
Ford Reveals Electric F-100 Eluminator Concept With...
At this year's SEMA show Ford revealed the F-100 Eluminator concept truck that not only converts a F-100 into an EV, it uses an electric crate motor from that the Mustang Mach-E that Ford will start selling to the public. Not only is this truck gorgeous but the fact that Ford is selling a crate...
www.lightningowners.com
It would be a major project.
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Ford should be making the batteries serviceable/replaceable. That may mean something like the body can be lifted off to access the power packs. There are already companies that test and replace individual cells of tesla batteries. The real cost is in tearing a car apart to access the pack.
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning Lariat ER
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I believe the battery is a simple dropout like it is on the Mustang Mach E. It just requires the dealer to have the battery lift.
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Wow! That's fantastic! That's a big selling point to me. Main concern is serviceability of battery. The other components, motors, controls I expect would work for a decade or two with minimal problem. Just wasn't sure about the battery beyond warranty.
Other nice thing is top of the truck is an f150 so window regulators, glove box latches and all that stuff will be readily available aftermarket.
I know I compare to Tesla a lot, but truly these trucks will employ similar builds. The battery and or either motor can likely be dropped from under this truck in a matter of minutes by someone that knows what they are doing and has the tools. All drop out from the bottom. The Tesla Motors truly have a coolant line or two, couple of HV connectors, a few bolts and drive shafts. Probably no more than 30 minutes.
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It's amazing to me they would make these serviceable. I would expect everything would be bolted together with inaccessible bolts and mean glue that mandates destroying the components to pry it apart.
Pleasantly surprised you guys expect they can be worked on.
Pleasantly surprised you guys expect they can be worked on.
Anything at this point is a guess. As no one can predict the future.
If I were to guess though, it would NOT be worth it for you.
First, companies de-incentivize replacing the battery. They make way more money selling a car, than just a battery. And when they sell a battery pack, it means that pack can't go in a car. For this reason, prices are high and inventory is low.
I would be surprised if Ford breaks this trend and makes it cost efficient /convenient to not only replace your battery, but also upgrade to a different battery than what you had originally purchased.
Additionally, even as battery tech improves and prices drop, you aren't likely to see that drop directly reflected in your pricing. Ford knows they can sell a truck for $X. When their costs go down, they don't drop the retail price by the matching amount. They may give you some of the discount, but more often than not, they keep the sticker price the same and maybe add a few extra bells/whistle to make you feel better about paying $X.
This is also ignoring the fact that as battery tech changes, so will other hardware in the car. So the batteries they are putting in F150's in 8 years may very well not even be compatible with other components in your lightning.
If you think you'll want to upgrade the battery, it will in my opinion be a better choice (and cheaper) do so now. As I doubt it will be cheaper in the future, IF it's even possible.
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Seems the differences related to the truck's electrical systems are more related to the efficiency of it. The ER trucks have faster charging capability and also higher output to the motors, but those don't seem to be required to have the truck take a higher-capacity pack. I appreciate the point about how Teslas are built differently depending on pack size, but this is ultimately already a retrofit. Lightnings weren't made from the get-go for an electric drive configuration, so it doesn't at all seem infeasible that a retrofitted by design vehicle would be able to take further retrofitting. I'm absolutely confident the battery packs would fit, since the frame and body are the same. If the Lightning ERs got different suspensions from the SRs, it's still a truck designed to haul a heavy load, it's not a passenger car. Even if the extended pack weighed another thousand pounds, the SR truck's existing suspension is designed to handle that.
The most fundamental issue would be whether the truck would prevent the battery upgrade from being accepted by the truck's electrical systems. Even if that's the case, unless the batteries have some sort of security protocol where they're paired by serial number to the truck's electrical systems, you could conceivably have a hard switch to go from the original batter to the "reserve" battery, much as the old VW Beetles used to do with gas tanks before they got fuel gauges. I could see them programming the truck not to accept a battery that appeared to be higher capacity than it was designed for, but I doubt they would do that for a battery that appeared to be lower capacity, since every battery loses capacity with time and use.
There are other considerations, and I'm not an expert on this battery pack design, so I'm just spitballing, but it's a worthy conversation. Ultimately if the money makes sense, someone will build a business to do this sort of conversion, bottom line. There are going to be perhaps 100,000 SR Lightnings on the road by 2025. That's a huge amount of trucks that could use an ER battery. That's a lot of money to be made. Ford is already working on outfitting Lightnings with a higher energy density battery, so even the existing ER customers may find themselves longing for a different pack some day.
The most fundamental issue would be whether the truck would prevent the battery upgrade from being accepted by the truck's electrical systems. Even if that's the case, unless the batteries have some sort of security protocol where they're paired by serial number to the truck's electrical systems, you could conceivably have a hard switch to go from the original batter to the "reserve" battery, much as the old VW Beetles used to do with gas tanks before they got fuel gauges. I could see them programming the truck not to accept a battery that appeared to be higher capacity than it was designed for, but I doubt they would do that for a battery that appeared to be lower capacity, since every battery loses capacity with time and use.
There are other considerations, and I'm not an expert on this battery pack design, so I'm just spitballing, but it's a worthy conversation. Ultimately if the money makes sense, someone will build a business to do this sort of conversion, bottom line. There are going to be perhaps 100,000 SR Lightnings on the road by 2025. That's a huge amount of trucks that could use an ER battery. That's a lot of money to be made. Ford is already working on outfitting Lightnings with a higher energy density battery, so even the existing ER customers may find themselves longing for a different pack some day.
For fans of "Bladerunner" - picture the "tech market" scene...
I think the biggest thing the Lightning (and soon-to-follow Chevy & GM products) do for all of us is make EV a general, high-volume product and maintenance market.
Simply put, it has not been worth it for tech co.'s/startups, etc. to chase battery-centric products, techniques, etc. In a few years, that landscape will have shifted dramatically. I can envisage controllers that read "real" (3rd party) battery conditions, and translate/Spoof them to existing on-board controllers, etc. Battery tech IS evolving very quickly, and as we are seeing, controllers are all software-driven. Either hacks will come for these systems, or replacement battery cells/packs will spoof values within the ranges expected by the controllers. It's a very exciting time... the only thing to count on is that any "Absolutes" for battery-related issues today will be totally different in 5 years.
Things I would like to see: Back-up Battery packs/fuel cells for extending range (could be bed- or frunk mounted)... removable when not needed (yeah, something like an engine lift would be needed!), clarity on charging-while-driving (like hacked BMW Xtenders), etc.
It's a bright future out there... now where did I put my Shades...???
I think the biggest thing the Lightning (and soon-to-follow Chevy & GM products) do for all of us is make EV a general, high-volume product and maintenance market.
Simply put, it has not been worth it for tech co.'s/startups, etc. to chase battery-centric products, techniques, etc. In a few years, that landscape will have shifted dramatically. I can envisage controllers that read "real" (3rd party) battery conditions, and translate/Spoof them to existing on-board controllers, etc. Battery tech IS evolving very quickly, and as we are seeing, controllers are all software-driven. Either hacks will come for these systems, or replacement battery cells/packs will spoof values within the ranges expected by the controllers. It's a very exciting time... the only thing to count on is that any "Absolutes" for battery-related issues today will be totally different in 5 years.
Things I would like to see: Back-up Battery packs/fuel cells for extending range (could be bed- or frunk mounted)... removable when not needed (yeah, something like an engine lift would be needed!), clarity on charging-while-driving (like hacked BMW Xtenders), etc.
It's a bright future out there... now where did I put my Shades...???
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning Lariat ER
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There are third party replacement battery packs for Nissan Leafs now. It’s simply a matter of market size and potential for profit.
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Ford and BMW are currently working on a solid state battery with Solid Power. Ford expects to be working with a prototype vehicle in 2023. The new batteries should to be the standard battery pack by the end of the decade, with a possible range around 500 miles. Since our current batteries are expected to degrade over time, don't you think Ford would be able to replace our 'Model T' Lightning batteries with a solid state option?
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