⚡ Ford Lightning Forum ⚡ banner
1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I've ordered my F150 Lightning and opted for the Standard battery. I'm curious if down the road 5 to 8 years, as battery prices drop too, can I upgrade from the Standard and replace with the Extended battery? Is the compartment they are stored in different or smaller? Is there any other technical stuff that would prevent this? I expect that battery technology with evolve rapidly in the next 10 years. We may have third-party solid-state replacement batteries too that are made to replace the OEM batteries, that give longer ranges and other benefits. Anyone else thinking about this or have insight into the possibilities? Thanks, Redeye.
 

·
Registered
Model 3 AWD, Lightning Lariat on order
Joined
·
494 Posts
Anything might be possible in a few years, but it's hard to know where battery technology will be. It will all depend on how well the truck bodies hold up. More than likely in many years the truck won't be worth the cost of a new battery. Current batteries approaching the 7+ year age still seem to be holding above 70% capacity. However it is estimated there could be a secondary market for used car batteries having a life as house backup, etc. which might facilitate replacements being worth it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
114 Posts
yep! you will likely be able to do a swap like this, it will just be a matter of cost and availability....maybe in 3-4y when more are out there, we might be able to find a used ER battery.
 

·
Administrator
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning reserved
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
IIRC The current cost of a Mustang Mach E battery is about $27,000. Remember that replacing the battery may necessitate swapping some other components and new programming. It will be an involved process. Possible, just don’t expect it to be plug-n-play.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
No. You will not be able to upgrade the pack.

That is a problem right now with the aging Model S'. The cars with the smaller packs took a significant hit in resale value, the smaller packs did not age as well, and it is not possible to put the larger packs in those cars. You can get them pretty cheap now, so I have been asked a lot for a system to make this happen.

The problem is multi-faceted. The suspensions are different to deal with the different weight of the packs, the pack size in different physically, it would not fit anyway, and there are a ton of electronics that are mated to pack size. It is way cheaper to just get rid of the small pack car and buy one with a larger pack.

I have been in the EV business for over 25 years. The advice I give anybody buying an EV; ALWAYS go for the larger pack. If you do not, you will wish you had. Guaranteed. You will then want to upgrade to a vehicle with the larger pack, and take a bath when you sell your small-pack truck. Few people want them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No. You will not be able to upgrade the pack.

That is a problem right now with the aging Model S'. The cars with the smaller packs took a significant hit in resale value, the smaller packs did not age as well, and it is not possible to put the larger packs in those cars. You can get them pretty cheap now, so I have been asked a lot for a system to make this happen.

The problem is multi-faceted. The suspensions are different to deal with the different weight of the packs, the pack size in different physically, it would not fit anyway, and there are a ton of electronics that are mated to pack size. It is way cheaper to just get rid of the small pack car and buy one with a larger pack.

I have been in the EV business for over 25 years. The advice I give anybody buying an EV; ALWAYS go for the larger pack. If you do not, you will wish you had. Guaranteed. You will then want to upgrade to a vehicle with the larger pack, and take a bath when you sell your small-pack truck. Few people want them.
Dang, this is why I'm asking now. To see if there is a path forward as battery technologies evolve and pricing improves with technical innovation. Thanks for the detailed response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
238 Posts
Dang, this is why I'm asking now. To see if there is a path forward as battery technologies evolve and pricing improves with technical innovation. Thanks for the detailed response.
They way I'm looking at this, is hopefully, resale will be high since the first major manufacturer electric truck; will just need to upgrade if that breakthrough comes.
 

·
Administrator
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning reserved
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Dang, this is why I'm asking now. To see if there is a path forward as battery technologies evolve and pricing improves with technical innovation. Thanks for the detailed response.
Possible, sure. Just check out this post

It would be a major project.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
Ford should be making the batteries serviceable/replaceable. That may mean something like the body can be lifted off to access the power packs. There are already companies that test and replace individual cells of tesla batteries. The real cost is in tearing a car apart to access the pack.
 

·
Administrator
2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning reserved
Joined
·
1,665 Posts
Ford should be making the batteries serviceable/replaceable. That may mean something like the body can be lifted off to access the power packs. There are already companies that test and replace individual cells of tesla batteries. The real cost is in tearing a car apart to access the pack.
I believe the battery is a simple dropout like it is on the Mustang Mach E. It just requires the dealer to have the battery lift.
Automotive tire Art Automotive design Bumper Motor vehicle
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
I believe the battery is a simple dropout like it is on the Mustang Mach E. It just requires the dealer to have the battery lift.
Wow! That's fantastic! That's a big selling point to me. Main concern is serviceability of battery. The other components, motors, controls I expect would work for a decade or two with minimal problem. Just wasn't sure about the battery beyond warranty.

Other nice thing is top of the truck is an f150 so window regulators, glove box latches and all that stuff will be readily available aftermarket.
 

·
Registered
Model 3 AWD, Lightning Lariat on order
Joined
·
494 Posts
Wow! That's fantastic! That's a big selling point to me. Main concern is serviceability of battery. The other components, motors, controls I expect would work for a decade or two with minimal problem. Just wasn't sure about the battery beyond warranty.

Other nice thing is top of the truck is an f150 so window regulators, glove box latches and all that stuff will be readily available aftermarket.
I know I compare to Tesla a lot, but truly these trucks will employ similar builds. The battery and or either motor can likely be dropped from under this truck in a matter of minutes by someone that knows what they are doing and has the tools. All drop out from the bottom. The Tesla Motors truly have a coolant line or two, couple of HV connectors, a few bolts and drive shafts. Probably no more than 30 minutes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2023 lighting

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
It's amazing to me they would make these serviceable. I would expect everything would be bolted together with inaccessible bolts and mean glue that mandates destroying the components to pry it apart.
Pleasantly surprised you guys expect they can be worked on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
Dang, this is why I'm asking now. To see if there is a path forward as battery technologies evolve and pricing improves with technical innovation. Thanks for the detailed response.
Anything at this point is a guess. As no one can predict the future.

If I were to guess though, it would NOT be worth it for you.

First, companies de-incentivize replacing the battery. They make way more money selling a car, than just a battery. And when they sell a battery pack, it means that pack can't go in a car. For this reason, prices are high and inventory is low.

I would be surprised if Ford breaks this trend and makes it cost efficient /convenient to not only replace your battery, but also upgrade to a different battery than what you had originally purchased.

Additionally, even as battery tech improves and prices drop, you aren't likely to see that drop directly reflected in your pricing. Ford knows they can sell a truck for $X. When their costs go down, they don't drop the retail price by the matching amount. They may give you some of the discount, but more often than not, they keep the sticker price the same and maybe add a few extra bells/whistle to make you feel better about paying $X.

This is also ignoring the fact that as battery tech changes, so will other hardware in the car. So the batteries they are putting in F150's in 8 years may very well not even be compatible with other components in your lightning.

If you think you'll want to upgrade the battery, it will in my opinion be a better choice (and cheaper) do so now. As I doubt it will be cheaper in the future, IF it's even possible.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top