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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Not sure I am going to be able to get one this go around simply because of what I have heard from much higher up the Ford food chain and that is why I have not been posting lately. This is certified.

If you all want a longer post with a breakdown as to the thinking of Ford and availability and why dealers are charging outrages prices (which if you were on our side or I explain it to you, you will understand.) I will be happy to post.



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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I would love to here more on availability and why your waiting if your willing to share.

It has been brought up that Ford has intentions to set it up so that states that mandate pzev onto vehicles such as California and wherever else will be getting the bulk of the lightning orders to include fleet. With that being the case the states that have more relaxed laws on vehicle ownership and safety mandates will receive less inventory. Not just less inventory but I was told stores with around 100-150 reservations will likely receive an allocation (how many vehicles Ford says the dealer can get) of 3 for the year....

In addition to my previous paragraph, Ford came up with the idea to have 25 spots for first wave reservations even if you did not put in your reservation early. Now I don't have a better idea and the reason that Ford did it was because not everyone who put the reservation in is actively in communication with dealerships so the plan was to get the people who are speaking to the dealers and ready to put orders in to the top of the list so that Ford could efficiently build the vehicles rather than wait for responses. If some dealers took that as "VIP" positioning then that is wrong and pretty scummy.

The pricing model released by Ford is similar to the Mach-E where invoice and msrp are the same so if a dealer didn't add mark up then there would be next to no profit. I'm not saying it should be 10s of thousands however when you look at dealers who will only get 3 in an entire year meanwhile you get raptors and gt500s at 4-5 of them a quarter that should put some things into perspective. Then you would want to put a higher adjustment on the vehicle than say a gt500. I work for a dealer and I get it I'm not trying to take a spot that would prevent my place of business from making money nor would I even expect them to sell it to me for less than they would to a regular customer. Although I was given the chance and passed.

The electric market is still very new and exciting when you really only have the rivian which is 67k plus and still not a full size truck nor do they have dealers who can assist or be there for their customers, have a solid pre built network of accessories, service centers that will be professionally trained and available for all their customers needs. Ford has an opportunity to make a slam dunk. The Tesla cyber truck is God knows how far away and suffers from the same issue rivian does with the lack of dealer network.

Ford says they predict the 511a lariat which will be over 70k to be the most built model. It's understandable when you consider that if you want a truck and the technology and everything else I've mentioned you get to have that at about the same price as a rivian. Personally I make a good living and I'm not trying to tout but even at a six figure income Ford is supposed to be the working man's vehicle and 70k is not a working man's vehicle. So I'm going to hold off for a few years let them sort it out and maybe if it all works out I'll get the mid model refresh.
 

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Not sure I am going to be able to get one this go around simply because of what I have heard from much higher up the Ford food chain and that is why I have not been posting lately. This is certified.

If you all want a longer post with a breakdown as to the thinking of Ford and availability and why dealers are charging outrages prices (which if you were on our side or I explain it to you, you will understand.) I will be happy to post.



View attachment 980
There’s been some questions surrounding the build and price tool and who will be able to view it. This email looks like everyone will be able to build and price, not just those that will be extended invitations to order. Does that sound right?

Thanks for keeping the group in the loop. I’ve really appreciated the insights from you and others in the know!

Im from a “relaxed rules state” so seems like the chances of getting a MY22 are increasingly slim. Keeping my fingers crossed!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
There’s been some questions surrounding the build and price tool and who will be able to view it. This email looks like everyone will be able to build and price, not just those that will be extended invitations to order. Does that sound right?

Thanks for keeping the group in the loop. I’ve really appreciated the insights from you and others in the know!

Im from a “relaxed rules state” so seems like the chances of getting a MY22 are increasingly slim. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Yes everyone will be able to use the build and price tool on ford's website. Just like any other f-150. However you will just have to wait until you get an invite to actually put in a retail order.
 

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Just saw the article with pricing from carbuzz. Not sure if it’s true or not. With Silverado electric reveal happening on Wednesday, Ford may start the process like Spade indicated.

 

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The pricing model released by Ford is similar to the Mach-E where invoice and msrp are the same so if a dealer didn't add mark up then there would be next to no profit.
If your willing would you elaborate on this. I worked at dealerships in the past and there is defiantly profit to be made when selling at msrp. Not to mention the kick backs from units sold. Have they changed things in the last 5 years?

Is Ford honey dicking all of us with msrp price?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
If your willing would you elaborate on this. I worked at dealerships in the past and there is defiantly profit to be made when selling at msrp. Not to mention the kick backs from units sold. Have they changed things in the last 5 years?

Is Ford honey dicking all of us with msrp price?

The recent indication from Ford is that there is no longer a difference to be seen from invoice to msrp. At a consumer standpoint and even as a salesperson and some management positions at a dealership you won't be able to see how there is any profit in the vehicle. Ford has already done this with the Mach-E but essentially all of the profit to the dealership is tied to small bits of money 400 here 250 there 750 here in dealer "rebates"(it is not the correct term but if I elaborated it wouldn't make any sense to someone who doesn't work at a dealership on the General sales manager position and up.) supposedly they said the dealer can make 10% of the msrp of the lightning now compared to 6.4% previously with invoice to msrp mark up. Yeah.... I can tell you that was not the case with the Mach-E when they told us that so let's see how it turns out this time around.

To speak about hitting specific numbers and earning money: Ford had contests like that about once a quarter in the last 4 years but with the way the market is today they don't need to and do not have those contests. Foreign brands such as Toyota, Hyundai, Nissan do have those monthly and are just a part of the program. (I work with foreign and domestic new vehicles currently which is why I know this.)
 

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If your willing would you elaborate on this. I worked at dealerships in the past and there is defiantly profit to be made when selling at msrp. Not to mention the kick backs from units sold. Have they changed things in the last 5 years?

Is Ford honey dicking all of us with msrp price?
If you read the whole playbook, they talk about how much a dealer makes by selling an electric F150 and a ICE F150 at MSRP. It was 10% for the electric F150 and 6.4% for ICE F150.
 

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As a dealer I'm letting you know those numbers are not accurate almost at all. With flat pays hold back and advertising.
This. I don't know about Spade, but our profit isn't in the selling of cars, but our service center. On the gov't side of sales I'm not even promising our customers anything as I'm not even sure we'll have units to sell this go around or if we do, what concessions they'd do.
 

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Ford has confirmed that the first batch of reservation holders can start ordering their trucks on Thursday.

  • On Thursday, the first wave of reservation holders for F-150 Lightning will start converting their reservations to orders; additional reservation holders will be invited in phases to place their order over the next few months. For those who don’t receive invites for the 2022 model year, there will be an opportunity to order for future model years.
This week marks the final pre-build phase before accelerating into mass production of F-150 Lightning trucks for retail customers and F-150 Lightning Pro for commercial customers. These production-level trucks will be used for testing in real-world customer conditions, collectively accumulating 1 million miles.

The Lightning is drawing interest from customers of competitor brands at a record rate in North America, with more than 75% of reservation holders new to the Ford brand. Production of the 2022 F-150 Lightning pickup will begin this spring at a starting MSRP of $39,974 before potential federal tax incentives.
 

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It has been brought up that Ford has intentions to set it up so that states that mandate pzev onto vehicles such as California and wherever else will be getting the bulk of the lightning orders to include fleet. With that being the case the states that have more relaxed laws on vehicle ownership and safety mandates will receive less inventory. Not just less inventory but I was told stores with around 100-150 reservations will likely receive an allocation (how many vehicles Ford says the dealer can get) of 3 for the year....

In addition to my previous paragraph, Ford came up with the idea to have 25 spots for first wave reservations even if you did not put in your reservation early. Now I don't have a better idea and the reason that Ford did it was because not everyone who put the reservation in is actively in communication with dealerships so the plan was to get the people who are speaking to the dealers and ready to put orders in to the top of the list so that Ford could efficiently build the vehicles rather than wait for responses. If some dealers took that as "VIP" positioning then that is wrong and pretty scummy.

The pricing model released by Ford is similar to the Mach-E where invoice and msrp are the same so if a dealer didn't add mark up then there would be next to no profit. I'm not saying it should be 10s of thousands however when you look at dealers who will only get 3 in an entire year meanwhile you get raptors and gt500s at 4-5 of them a quarter that should put some things into perspective. Then you would want to put a higher adjustment on the vehicle than say a gt500. I work for a dealer and I get it I'm not trying to take a spot that would prevent my place of business from making money nor would I even expect them to sell it to me for less than they would to a regular customer. Although I was given the chance and passed.

The electric market is still very new and exciting when you really only have the rivian which is 67k plus and still not a full size truck nor do they have dealers who can assist or be there for their customers, have a solid pre built network of accessories, service centers that will be professionally trained and available for all their customers needs. Ford has an opportunity to make a slam dunk. The Tesla cyber truck is God knows how far away and suffers from the same issue rivian does with the lack of dealer network.

Ford says they predict the 511a lariat which will be over 70k to be the most built model. It's understandable when you consider that if you want a truck and the technology and everything else I've mentioned you get to have that at about the same price as a rivian. Personally I make a good living and I'm not trying to tout but even at a six figure income Ford is supposed to be the working man's vehicle and 70k is not a working man's vehicle. So I'm going to hold off for a few years let them sort it out and maybe if it all works out I'll get the mid model refresh.
Update from build and price tool. The 511a Lariat is ~$80k!
 

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Lol now I know why you are holding off spade312. These prices are ridiculous. I make decent money and I am complety out priced on the extended range battery. What a bummer.....
Agreed, I'm thinking the standard range battery is more than enough from my driving around town and local jobs. Can't justify +$30k for 70 more miles...
 

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I am going to have to sit down tonight with the wife and figure out what what we are going to do if they call us about an order. I got in a few hours after the announcment so its possible I might get in the first wave. My plan from the beginning was to go with the pro model with extended battery, cloth seats and both towing packages added since we planned on getting a small camper soon. Ford decided not to offer cloth or extended battery on the pro. The jump to the xlt model is $13k for basically cloth seats, plus another $20k for the extended battery. At this point I don't know that for me its worth the extra $33k to get a larger battery and cloth seats, but at the same time I don't think I could justify spending $58k for a standard range truck. The larger battery for me was less about the range, and more about the ability to charge faster, and to use it use it for backup power since I live in an extremely rural area that frequently loses power. Also kind of pissed that Ford doesn't include stuff like adaptive cruise standard on everything. Subaru can put it on a $18k, impreza as a standard feature, but I have to pay almost $10k for a package from ford to get it. They are also locking the underseat storage behind the same $10k package.
 

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I am going to have to sit down tonight with the wife and figure out what what we are going to do if they call us about an order. I got in a few hours after the announcment so its possible I might get in the first wave. My plan from the beginning was to go with the pro model with extended battery, cloth seats and both towing packages added since we planned on getting a small camper soon. Ford decided not to offer cloth or extended battery on the pro. The jump to the xlt model is $13k for basically cloth seats, plus another $20k for the extended battery. At this point I don't know that for me its worth the extra $33k to get a larger battery and cloth seats, but at the same time I don't think I could justify spending $58k for a standard range truck. The larger battery for me was less about the range, and more about the ability to charge faster, and to use it use it for backup power since I live in an extremely rural area that frequently loses power. Also kind of pissed that Ford doesn't include stuff like adaptive cruise standard on everything. Subaru can put it on a $18k, impreza as a standard feature, but I have to pay almost $10k for a package from ford to get it. They are also locking the underseat storage behind the same $10k package.
Go down to your dealer and sit down with the guy that orders your vehicles and he should be able to tell you if you are in wave one or not. I found out yesterday when I went down to my dealer that I'm in wave one. And if he isn't sure how to look, look on page 29 of the playbook that got released a couple days ago.
 

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I am going to have to sit down tonight with the wife and figure out what what we are going to do if they call us about an order. I got in a few hours after the announcment so its possible I might get in the first wave. My plan from the beginning was to go with the pro model with extended battery, cloth seats and both towing packages added since we planned on getting a small camper soon. Ford decided not to offer cloth or extended battery on the pro. The jump to the xlt model is $13k for basically cloth seats, plus another $20k for the extended battery. At this point I don't know that for me its worth the extra $33k to get a larger battery and cloth seats, but at the same time I don't think I could justify spending $58k for a standard range truck. The larger battery for me was less about the range, and more about the ability to charge faster, and to use it use it for backup power since I live in an extremely rural area that frequently loses power. Also kind of pissed that Ford doesn't include stuff like adaptive cruise standard on everything. Subaru can put it on a $18k, impreza as a standard feature, but I have to pay almost $10k for a package from ford to get it. They are also locking the underseat storage behind the same $10k package.
You can use the Pro standard range for backup power, too. You just have to buy the Pro charger separately.
 

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If I don't hear anything in the next few days I might call them. Dealer is about 45 minutes away so dropping by isn't an easy thing.

And I know I can use the pro charger with the standard battery, but the price of the charger and install puts the standard xlt even that much more out of what I consider worth the cost for a standard battery truck. Adding nothing but spray in bed liner and the Tow packages bumps the xlt up to something like 58k before everything else gets added on. When we did our budget last year and started looking at a truck before the lightning was annouced we estimated 50-55k for a truck would be the top end of our budget, a bit more obviously with the lightning since we get the federal rebate, but looking at the prices they put out today, plus tax tags fees, and the inevitable dealer markup I think I am going to be back to looking at ICE trucks to get in my budget and hope they are more affordable once the chip shortage ends. I was truly excited about this truck, and I still think its going to be a vehicle that can help move the industry in the right direction. Maybe if this doesnt work out, someday I can afford one when the kids are grown and we are done saving for retirement and 2 kids college funds anymore.
 

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If I don't hear anything in the next few days I might call them. Dealer is about 45 minutes away so dropping by isn't an easy thing.

And I know I can use the pro charger with the standard battery, but the price of the charger and install puts the standard xlt even that much more out of what I consider worth the cost for a standard battery truck. Adding nothing but spray in bed liner and the Tow packages bumps the xlt up to something like 58k before everything else gets added on. When we did our budget last year and started looking at a truck before the lightning was annouced we estimated 50-55k for a truck would be the top end of our budget, a bit more obviously with the lightning since we get the federal rebate, but looking at the prices they put out today, plus tax tags fees, and the inevitable dealer markup I think I am going to be back to looking at ICE trucks to get in my budget and hope they are more affordable once the chip shortage ends. I was truly excited about this truck, and I still think its going to be a vehicle that can help move the industry in the right direction. Maybe if this doesnt work out, someday I can afford one when the kids are grown and we are done saving for retirement and 2 kids college funds anymore.
Have you considered the alto to keep the cost down?
 
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