[FM_Jack]

Well their advantage was being, mostly, the only EV automaker. Sorry but Bolt/Leaf/i3/i8 just were not it. Jaguar's I-Pace has been out for like 3 - 4 years now, anyone talk about that? I've seen one (I think) on the road. Now, a day doesn't go by in which I don't pass a Mach E. I see Kia's EVs (the niro or whatever that one was). I'm surprised at how soon I'm seeing the Ioniq 5. Recharge is popping up in my area too. And to my recent surprise: 2 different Rivians in my neighborhood, and one of them right off my street (both employees). Oooooh and the Taycan I love soo much. Do want.

I can't keep count with how many EVs are coming out this year. Tesla still has a strong foot print but now there is choice - that could honestly hurt them and may be why we are seeing this various increases and deletions because they have to start pulling back on excess. This is especially ture because at their Model S and Model X price points, they were already swimming with sharks for the Luxury brand and they did not compete when it came to comfort. Now, Benz, BMW, Porsche, Lucid, all the reviews I've seen on various channels have said they like the cabin better than Tesla (Kyle on Out of Spec put 100k on his - albeit a model 3, and said the Taycan was more comfortable). Lincoln soon and I'm sure the rest are right around the corner. I feel in the end Tesla will have to stop saying "this is what is best" and accept that they have to really start competing. Everyone is catching up and to stay ahead they have to put out more. Something all the auto manufacturers are very good at and have perfected for a much longer time.

It was also interesting to see BlueCruise be presented as a subscription service after 3 years. I hate the idea of features being subscriptions. Especially for things we've had in vehicles for almost 20 years. But auto drive functionality, because I don't want it - I'd be fine with that. I think Tesla should follow this path since they've been ever increasing the cost of having autopilot and it still isn't technically available. Reduce the price, roll it in as a standard feature and then put up the subscription service.

That was way more than I was planning to type. -_-

 

[greatbreweh]

I suspect Tesla has some advantages still in my opinion as they have many years of tweeking and fixing designs not to mention processes that no other car manufacture is doing period. My opinion Tesla can likely enjoy another decade over any other ev manufacturer unless there becomes something better than batteries from someone. If they had a pickup truck I would have gone Tesla 100 percent for thweir experience in the space, I really hope my 100K truck is not a big learning curve for ford at my expense.

 

[FM_Jack]

If they had a pickup truck I would have gone Tesla 100 percent for thweir experience in the space, I really hope my 100K truck is not a big learning curve for ford at my expense.

That's interesting to me, because you say experience in that space but for a truck you are valuing the EV power-train over what a truck is? Which they have no experience. Why not just get a Model X? Though cost wise, I can't see how they can sell a cybertruck for less than a Model X.

Though if the cybertruck reaches the market, it would more compete with the Rivian than the Lightning, imo.

 

[greatbreweh]

That's interesting to me, because you say experience in that space but for a truck you are valuing the EV power-train over what a truck is? Which they have no experience. Why not just get a Model X? Though cost wise, I can't see how they can sell a cybertruck for less than a Model X.

Though if the cybertruck reaches the market, it would more compete with the Rivian than the Lightning, imo.

I get your point and agree ford knows trucks (I have 4 currently and 5th on order) just not EV trucks as this is their first that is all I am referring too, Tesla has got a pretty reliable power plant but not throwing ford engineers under the bus or I would not have spent 100K, just hoping they got it right.

 

[willyloman]

I get your point and agree ford knows trucks (I have 4 currently and 5th on order) just not EV trucks as this is their first that is all I am referring too, Tesla has got a pretty reliable power plant but not throwing ford engineers under the bus or I would not have spent 100K, just hoping they got it right.

I don't get his point. What advantage does Ford have in the EV truck market with no engine, transmission, drive train, new ev platform, etc. Plus Ford has to deal with dealers marking up the prices of their customers orders after the fact. Ford would do better imo if they started a separate EV division to isolate it from the ICE division. This is all new to Ford except for their very popular design. The Lightning also will be cannilbalizing the very profitable ICE versions. I hope they do well because competition will help bring down the prices of EV's eventually when there are enough batteries to fill orders. If Ford can deliver 100,000 Lightnings this year I'll be impressed.

 

[FM_Jack]

I don't get his point. What advantage does Ford have in the EV truck market with no engine, transmission, drive train, new ev platform, etc.

So in the EV truck market, no one has an engine/transmisson/drive train. This isn't a new platform because they learned from the Mach E, which is popular, and the rest (outside of the frunk), is a standard F150. The screen is the one from the Mach E and every reviewer I've watched and noted that the screen is much snappier than the Mach E. So everything else a work truck does, this is because it is just an F-150. Dodge and Chevy will have that same advantage, but against who? the only real competitor right now is Rivian. That isn't a work truck. And yes yes the Hummer but that is surprisingly wasteful even as an EV, so points to GMC/Chevy for that.

Ford would do better imo if they started a separate EV division to isolate it from the ICE division.

They are.

This is all new to Ford except for their very popular design.

Again, the Mach E.

I hope they do well because competition will help bring down the prices of EV's eventually when there are enough batteries to fill orders.

I would argue that this will not happen. Ford released the Maverick and it is a great value. That will bring prices down for that segment because they went all out to keep the cost down. Dealers will screw that up. The EV market won't be the same. Battery and battery tech are just not wide spread enough and the materials (because of a lot of geo-political issues) are just going to be an issue. Though Ford like others is going to start making the packs here in the US. That might bring some of their cost down? A SR pro model staying in the high 40s, low 50s is a nice value but until that range, and more importantly charging, improves you are going to be better off with an gas powered truck.

That's why I think it was smart for them to prioritize the commercial side cause these vehicles excel for job sites. Not fun toys for offroading, etc like the Hummer, Rivian and so on.

If Ford can deliver 100,000 Lightnings this year I'll be impressed.

I thought they said they weren't going to be able to meet that for this year. 20k for the 2022 MY, probably by the end of Q4, and then start building 2023s to begin delivery end of 2022 into 2023. Supply chain obviously being the biggest issue that isn't competely a Ford thing. Though I wonder how much these recent recalls and lawsuits are going to hinder them, if at all.

 

[Dman]

I think there will be lots of vehicles that will be arguably better than Tesla. But throw in no dealer BS, a huge Supercharging network, robust software (and OTA updates when there are issues) and Tesla has some key ownership advantages. I say that not from personal experience, but from knowing quite a few happy Tesla owners who know a lot about cars. A ten year advantage can become 20 or thirty years easily. And that’s a long time.