[dcfdgaloot]

So with this Federal Act passing, and the new limits being in acted, are those of us with a truck Msrp over 80k screwed?

my lariat er with max tow is just over 80k. But that includes destination and delivery. Truck is 78ish. Limits on price didn’t matter before, nor did income. Now it all does. I’m wondering if the “truck price” is what we use or do we have to include D&D which is essentially a shipping charge. Seems like BS to me if that counts.

Are these new rules a line in the sand and take effect immediately upon signing of the bill, or are they phased in throughout the quarter like the old rules?

This all really sucks for some of us. I know it does for me. I have so many more questions but will hold off

 

[Ugleeual]

I believe the wording is MSRP

 

[Leaf to Lightning : )]

you can make an argument as to whether MSRP, for government Tax Credit Refund purposes, would include Shipping/Destination charges, since it does not vary by the 'price/trim/size/destination' of the vehicle. Some say it is not, some will conclude that it is. I would suggest that it's not, since the 'spirit' of the bill more relies on the 'base' price of a vehicle, regardless of where you live, where the vehicle is shipped to, or even whether your dealer adds ADM and other 'add ons' at the time of purchase.
FORD sets the MSRP, and while they also set the 'fixed' Shipping/Destination fee for all vehicles, the government only requires that they include that as a separate line item so that everyone is aware of that additional part of the total 'cost' of the vehicle purchase. My Window Sticker includes the line item separate, but as part of the 'total' MSRP at the bottom of the label.

I look at the Shipping/Destination charge as a separate charge, not related to the price or size or destination state of the final vehicle pricing, although it's clearly included as a MSRP line item.

another note: if you are trying to stay within the $80,000 limit for the new Tax Bill, then you might have to forgo additional 'add ons' and options, and wait to add those that your local dealer can add at the time of delivery, or you can add yourself.

 

[BK1]

For those expecting delivery after Biden signs but before the end of the year, are you certain on how you’ll be impacted? I’ve heard that you’ll fall under the old rules until the end of the year, and I’ve heard that you need to get a signed agreement committing to the purchase or you’ll get nothing. Does anyone know a solid source that outlines the impact? I’m supposed to get my truck in a few weeks and Biden is supposedly signing the new bill this week.

 

[ChasingCoral]

There is no change for those who buy their trucks in 2022. All trucks purchased this year fall under the old tax laws.

There may even be an opportunity for those taking delivery in 2023 the enter into binding purchase agreements in 2022 to take the old tax credit.

 

[BK1]

@ChasingCoral Thanks! Where’d you get that info? Any sources other than the Act itself? My head hurts from trying to complete that puzzle.
As dialed in as you are with this market, I trust you’re correct. Just looking for published sources to reference. Thanks again!

 

[dcarlton1]

So with this Federal Act passing, and the new limits being in acted, are those of us with a truck Msrp over 80k screwed?

my lariat er with max tow is just over 80k. But that includes destination and delivery. Truck is 78ish. Limits on price didn’t matter before, nor did income. Now it all does. I’m wondering if the “truck price” is what we use or do we have to include D&D which is essentially a shipping charge. Seems like BS to me if that counts.

Are these new rules a line in the sand and take effect immediately upon signing of the bill, or are they phased in throughout the quarter like the old rules?

This all really sucks for some of us. I know it does for me. I have so many more questions but will hold off

Talk to your dealer. It depends on what the 80k plies to. You are getting way excited when no facts or implementation guidance has occurred let alone it being signed into law. RELAX.

 

[ChasingCoral]

@ChasingCoral Thanks! Where’d you get that info? Any sources other than the Act itself? My head hurts from trying to complete that puzzle.
As dialed in as you are with this market, I trust you’re correct. Just looking for published sources to reference. Thanks again!

Sorry, my bad. I thought I had read the current rules went through the end of the year. They don't.

Here's your way out: if your truck has been built (and maybe if it has been scheduled) you may be able to enter into a purchase contract before delivery. I actually purchased mine before delivery because I was leaving town.

See:

Buy now to claim the $7,500 federal EV tax credit before it expires for 2022

How long will it take President Biden’s pen to reach the Inflation Reduction Act? That’s how long EV shoppers have to claim their $7,500 this year.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[BK1]

Sorry, my bad. I thought I had read the current rules went through the end of the year. They don't.

Here's your way out: if your truck has been built (and maybe if it has been scheduled) you may be able to enter into a purchase contract before delivery. I actually purchased mine before delivery because I was leaving town.

See:

Buy now to claim the $7,500 federal EV tax credit before it expires for 2022

How long will it take President Biden’s pen to reach the Inflation Reduction Act? That’s how long EV shoppers have to claim their $7,500 this year.

www.greencarreports.com

Thanks, that’s the same article that’s had me unsure about it. And someone on another forum was adamant about not being impacted through the rest of 2022. I’ll be calling the dealer tomorrow. Last week they said it’s built but hasn’t shipped. And if this bill gets signed this week, my truck won’t win that race. Thanks again for the clarification!

 

[ChasingCoral]

Thanks, that’s the same article that’s had me unsure about it. And someone on another forum was adamant about not being impacted through the rest of 2022. I’ll be calling the dealer tomorrow. Last week they said it’s built but hasn’t shipped. And if this bill gets signed this week, my truck won’t win that race. Thanks again for the clarification!

Shipped or not, you may be able to enter into a contract. Besides, then you'll really know you're getting it at MSRP (hopefully).

 

[dcfdgaloot]

So still no definitive answer on this huh. It’s frustrating. I really would of thought the change would be at the first of the year. Not the moment the Act is signed. I’m just trying to cover all my bases. My truck will be here by mid September.

further….after reading that article, it sounds like it’s effective immediately. The Washington post states Biden will sign the bill tomorrow. Another source states that you’re technically in contact if your vehicle is scheduled and you put a deposit down. Hope that’s the case. I also got a “purchase contract” from my dealer dated the 10th. But I have not fully purchased the vehicle, he advised against it, because if something happens in transit, I’m kind of in a bind.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Shipped or not, you may be able to enter into a contract. Besides, then you'll really know you're getting it at MSRP (hopefully).

A little more on this: a vehicle is sold to the dealer as soon as it leaves the plant. The dealer can definitely sell a shipped vehicle.

 

[Ugleeual]

(Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden will sign legislation on Tuesday that will eliminate electric vehicle tax credits for most models currently getting up to $7,500 effective.


The White House said Biden will sign legislation to approve the $430 billion climate, health and tax bill on Tuesday. The bill restructures the existing $7,5000 new EV tax credit and creates a new $4,000 rebate for used EVs. It also includes tens of billions of dollars in new loan, tax credit and grant programs for automakers to build cleaner vehicles.


Many automakers and dealers have been working with customers to complete binding written contracts ahead of Biden’s signing to make them eligible for credits even if they have not received vehicles.


The Alliance for Automotive Innovation, a trade group representing Volkswagen, General Motors Co, Toyota Motor and Ford Motor among others, said earlier the law would make 70% of 72 U.S. electric, plug-in hybrid and fuel-cell EVs that currently qualify ineligible upon Biden’s signing.


On Jan. 1, when the bill’s new income and price caps and battery and critical mineral sourcing rules take effect, “none would qualify for the full credit when additional sourcing requirements go into effect,” the group added.


An estimate from the Congressional Budget Office forecasts 11,000 new EVs will receive tax credits in 2023 assuming $7,500 per vehicle.


Audi of America, Kia Corp and Porsche said Friday that buyers of its EVs will lose access to federal tax credits when Biden signs.


Audi said only its Audi plug-in hybrid electric will retain its existing federal credit through the end of 2022.


The bill makes any EVs assembled outside North America ineligible for tax credits, which has brought criticism from the European Union, South Korea and many automakers.


GM and Tesla previously hit the 200,000-vehicle cap and are no longer eligible but will again be eligible starting Jan. 1 under stricter sourcing and income rules.

 

[THEsocalledfan]

A little more on this: a vehicle is sold to the dealer as soon as it leaves the plant. The dealer can definitely sell a shipped vehicle.

Is that true? My brother worked for car dealerships for years, and only worked for one where the dealer truly owned the new cars on their lots. I never understood how it works, but he told me new cars on lots were rarely owned by the dealers unless something has changed in last 10 year.

 

[grumpy]

Who owns the cars on the dealer lots is an interesting point. Ford would like to use the direct sales approach of Tesla but seemingly can't, because the dealers apparently have a right to still control the final sales price.

Understandably Ford needed to raise the price of the 2023 models, and hoped to retain the good will of their loyal customers, and avoid the Rivian disaster, with their "Customer Satisfaction Private Offer" to folks who have been waiting for the offered PRO model they wanted to buy on May 19, 2021.

Based on the "Private Offer" we have put down money and committed to a specific build based on Ford's announcement of prices and rebates only to find the local dealer is now planning on "adjusting his ADM" to remove the "Private Offer". .

Ford must control the dealer actions in this case. If the dealer doesn't own the cars, why would Ford allow dealers to destroy "Customer Satisfaction" by price gouging.
.

 

[BK1]

Spoke to my dealer and they said the $500 deposit when we placed the order signifies a binding agreement. They also said I can’t cancel the order but I could (if I wanted to) just not pick it up…which I won’t, but that doesn’t make it sound “binding”.
Would anyone on here use the above to count for claiming the current (pre-IRA act) EV tax credit?

 

[dcfdgaloot]

I’d hope so. I’m not risking anything though. My truck was shipped the 13th. I jumped into a cash purchase agreement as of last night to fully lock in the sale as of then. I’m done playing games 😂

 

[Voltz]

Spoke to my dealer and they said the $500 deposit when we placed the order signifies a binding agreement.

Too bad whomever is saying this at the dealership hasn't read the agreement language governing orders and deposits (unless that dealer strays from industry SOP). I hope that the interpretation for transition grandfathering will interpret fulfilled 2022 orders that were secured by a deposit tantamount to a binding contract fulfilled.

 

[Berm]

Credits for New Electric Vehicles Purchased in 2022 or Before | Internal Revenue Service

If you bought or leased a new, qualified plug-in electric vehicle (EV) in 2022 or before, you may be eligible for a clean vehicle tax credit up to $7,500 under IRC 30D.

www.irs.gov

This answers questions surrounding 22CY orders. It sounds like a purchase agreement is sufficient even if you take delivery after today.

 

[Berm]

Reading more, it doesn’t matter. So long as the vehicle is assembled at the Rouge (it is) it will qualify for $7,500 credit until Jan 1 2023 under the next paragraph.