[Txxthie]

Finally someone reports on the charging characteristics of the SR Lightning. Thanks YouTube. Standard range charging curve?

 

[208]

Well... Duh... Lol. 😎

 

[THEsocalledfan]

I was a bit surprised just how much slower it was.

 

[208]

I was a bit surprised just how much slower it was.

I have been saying all along that the biggest handicap of the SR is not range, but charging speed.

 

[Txxthie]

I have been saying all along that the biggest handicap of the SR is not range, but charging speed.

I will take an average flat 90kW charging rate up to 80% and 80kW delivered in 50 mins.👍 The pro has a large battery (98 kWh) and 400V architecture. What is this 10 minutes slower (if that) than a Mach E extended range?

 

[3rdgenfan]

I've never had to use DC charging when I owned a Bolt for 2 years but that was limited to a max of 55kWh so I assume 90 will be enough to get by. Maybe I'll regret the base battery, but $65k for a truck is a bit over my normal max amount of something to buy.

 

[Txxthie]

TFL Truck is testing a Pro SR and theoretical range ended up being 276 miles (2.8 miles per kWh) The efficiency is outstanding, SR for the win 🏅. Now if they can stop saying it’s a $46k truck, the actual 2023 price for the vehicle they are testing is north of $51k and they are sold out. Ford also loses money on every XLT, Pro, and possibly any lightning under $80k.

 

[208]

TFL Truck is testing a Pro SR and theoretical range ended up being 276 miles (2.8 miles per kWh) The efficiency is outstanding, SR for the win 🏅. Now if they can stop saying it’s a $46k truck, the actual 2023 price for the vehicle they are testing is north of $51k and they are sold out. Ford also loses money on every XLT, Pro, and possibly any lightning under $80k.

"Theoretical range." Oh boy 🤦‍♂️

Over the years I have had great success with theoretical range. On theoretical trips.

 

[3rdgenfan]

"Theoretical range." Oh boy 🤦‍♂️

Over the years I have had great success with theoretical range. On theoretical trips.

Yeah you just need to go downhill for 40 theoretical miles and boom....whats the issue?


😇

 

[Txxthie]

"Theoretical range." Oh boy 🤦‍♂️

Over the years I have had great success with theoretical range. On theoretical trips.

If you watch the video you will understand the context of that statement. Translation: It’s better than the stated 240 mile range. It’s no surprise, 300 lbs lighter with a big 98kWh battery. An Audi eTron weighs 5765lbs and SR lightning is 6171lbs. For an EV of its size the SR lightning is in a class of its own. Why spend the huge markup (other than availability) for more than an 250 mile range with battery technology changing so quickly? (400V vs 800V, LFP, Solid State) EVs aren’t good towing rigs at this juncture to be stopping every 150 miles at hit/miss EA. Wait till the lightning comes with a LFP and you can charge it to 100% with limited degradation. The TM3 SR I just purchased is insanely efficient, has 270 miles range and comes with an LFP battery, no more charging drama.

 

[Txxthie]

Yeah you just need to go downhill for 40 theoretical miles and boom....whats the issue?


😇

They did go uphill as well. Why all the SR hate, aren’t we on the same team here? Who even drives over 200 miles a day in these forums?

 

[THEsocalledfan]

They did go uphill as well. Why all the SR hate, aren’t we on the same team here? Who even drives over 200 miles a day in these forums?

Not daily, but I regularly drive 240 miles, in fall/winter between Sioux Falls, SD and Fargo, ND with one 50 kw charger about 200 miles from Fargo.....and wind. SR, not an option.

 

[Txxthie]

Not daily, but I regularly drive 240 miles, in fall/winter between Sioux Falls, SD and Fargo, ND with one 50 kw charger about 200 miles from Fargo.....and wind. SR, not an option.

Is this your first EV, because it doesn’t seem conducive to where to live and lack of DCFC. Even with ER you will be cutting it close in winter in those conditions.

 

[THEsocalledfan]

Is this your 1st EV?

Yes. Note temps will regularly be between 0-50 degrees F.....and 80 mph speed limit; I'll only drive slower if absolutely needed for range.

I just get a kick out of folks thinking everyone will be okay with an SR. That is simply not true.

 

[3rdgenfan]

They did go uphill as well. Why all the SR hate, aren’t we on the same team here? Who even drives over 200 miles a day in these forums?

No hate here, just a dash of sarcasm. I ordered an SR!

 

[208]

They did go uphill as well. Why all the SR hate, aren’t we on the same team here? Who even drives over 200 miles a day in these forums?

There is no "SR hate", but there is a tremendous amount of EV driving experience on this board. It can be painful watching reviewers like TFL bumble through the basics, and worse, maybe influence someone into a purchase that they will not be happy with down the road.

The Model S P60 had a 224 mile range. As a long time EV dealer, I would warn people; think of the P60 as a city car. If you try to use it for out of town trips, even with the Supercharger network you will get frustrated. Here is why:
It is not wise to go too far below 15% before refueling, and it is cripplingly slow to charge over 80%, so 224 - 35% = 145 miles practical range. Except that it is not wise to assume most people will actually get the optimistic EPA rating, so the car was usually able to only do about 115 miles on a charge. Add the fact that the smaller packs take up to a 30% hit in charging speeds, and it makes these cars painful to try to use the way you would an ICE for out of town jaunts.

I explain this to people, but because P60's are dirt cheap (because of the above reasons) people buy them against my recommendation. Almost without exception, it is a short-lived purchase because the reality of what I just explained is far different out on the road then it was in their head. An exception is my sister. She lives in town, does not travel a lot, and loves her P60.

Are you like my sister? Super, the SR is probably all you will ever need. There is no hate there, only an industry understanding that the 300 mile mark makes a huge difference in the viability of the vehicle, any vehicle that is going to be used the way most Americans expect to.

The Lightning SR is the new P60. It will be great for some people. It will significantly less practical to try to use for any type of real travel.

 

[Txxthie]

Yes. Note temps will regularly be between 0-50 degrees F.....and 80 mph speed limit; I'll only drive slower if absolutely needed for range.

I just get a kick out of folks thinking everyone will be okay with an SR. That is simply not true.

Realistically speaking an EV isn’t the best choice for where you located (DCFC dead zone + cold), so yes get all the battery you can. Most areas of the country, the Coasts, Florida and Texas, there is a lot of DC fast chargers, so SR is okay. You might be in for a rude awakening even with the ER battery. EVs lose almost 1/3 to 1/2 of stated range in winter conditions. A lightning will struggle to get 2 miles per kWh (131kWh battery x 2 =262 miles) in winter temperatures. You will be cutting it close in extreme conditions for that 200 mile stretch even driving 65 with limited climate.

 

[Txxthie]

There is no "SR hate", but there is a tremendous amount of EV driving experience on this board. It can be painful watching reviewers like TFL bumble through the basics, and worse, maybe influence someone into a purchase that they will not be happy with down the road.

The Model S P60 had a 224 mile range. As a long time EV dealer, I would warn people; think of the P60 as a city car. If you try to use it for out of town trips, even with the Supercharger network you will get frustrated. Here is why:
It is not wise to go too far below 15% before refueling, and it is cripplingly slow to charge over 80%, so 224 - 35% = 145 miles practical range. Except that it is not wise to assume most people will actually get the optimistic EPA rating, so the car was usually able to only do about 115 miles on a charge. Add the fact that the smaller packs take up to a 30% hit in charging speeds, and it makes these cars painful to try to use the way you would an ICE for out of town jaunts.

I explain this to people, but because P60's are dirt cheap (because of the above reasons) people buy them against my recommendation. Almost without exception, it is a short-lived purchase because the reality of what I just explained is far different out on the road then it was in their head. An exception is my sister. She lives in town, does not travel a lot, and loves her P60.

Are you like my sister? Super, the SR is probably all you will ever need. There is no hate there, only an industry understanding that the 300 mile mark makes a huge difference in the viability of the vehicle, any vehicle that is going to be used the way most Americans expect to.
The Lightning SR is the new P60. It will be great for some people. It will significantly less practical to try to use for any type of real travel.

My AWD Ioniq 5 is one of the best road trip EVs on the market today with only 254 miles of range from a 77kWh pack. Better than a ER Mach E with over 300 miles of range and a 91kWh pack. Range isn’t the end all.

Model S 60 vs SR lightning:
The use case for a truck is very different than a 4 door sedan. Most people don’t road trip trucks and towing with a lightning is inefficient (comparable with ICE but with much less range). At the time the TMS 60 was in production DCFC was in its infancy, so it was indeed a city car. Much has changed since then and the SR Lightning has significantly more DCFC options plus has more range than that early Model S. The Model S 60 had a 60 kWh pack and a SR Lightning has a 98kWh pack.

The ER is for those that want quicker delivery, $$ isn’t an issue, truly need 250 miles of range between charges, insist on towing with an EV despite range issues, or it’s their first EV and have range anxiety. Spending significantly less money is a more practical endeavor, especially in this rising interest rate environment. $80k for a Lightning is out of reach for most Americans financially speaking. As currently structured, one of the most profitable parts of US OEMs like Ford and GM are their financing arms. Lightning MSRP is going up and so is the cost to borrow $$, a double whammy. Another reason to opt for the SR version.
The Surprising Ways Car Dealers Make The Most Money Off You

 

[THEsocalledfan]

Realistically speaking an EV isn’t the best choice for where you located (DCFC dead zone + cold), so yes get all the battery you can. Most areas of the country, the Coasts, Florida and Texas, there is a lot of DC fast chargers, so SR is okay. You might be in for a rude awakening even with the ER battery. EVs lose almost 1/3 to 1/2 of stated range in winter conditions. A lightning will struggle to get 2 miles per kWh (131kWh battery x 2 =262 miles) in winter temperatures. You will be cutting it close in extreme conditions for that 200 mile stretch even driving 65 with limited climate.

I hear you. If it's the reason I'll keep my ford flex until we get the nevi stations in place. Then I'll go all electric as I can make it work at that point.