[310FLYR]

Have had my 2023 Lightning for 2 weeks now and keep running into the same issue at DC Fast Charge Stations (Max 350kw)

Have used three different ones and every time I only get a max of 40kw. I was thinking temperature could be a factor and once it was -36C when i charged, and today it was +9C still with the same result.

Is there a charge setting in the truck that needs to be adjusted or any other advice that can be passed along?
Craig

 

[R.I.P.]

We are seeing similar results in the cold. It is possible that battery pre-conditioning is not mature yet in the vehicle, or possibly not even working. The speeds you are seeing are very typical for a cold battery trying to take a charge.

 

[Columbiaskier]

I don’t think that is the issue as 310FLYR has the same problem at +9 C. I’m having issues as well. Starts charging fine at about 130kW for 5 minutes then goes down to 25-30kW, even when charge state is only 50%. I’ve had this happen on two different DC Fast Charge providers so I’m thinking is something with the truck’s charge system.

 

[Voltz]

What state of charge are you arriving with? Do any of the dispensers you've used show how much power the truck is requesting? That information is a recent addition to (some) Electrify America screens. Perhaps you're able to see the same information in the frozen north?

Generally, the higher the state of charge, the lower the sustained rate of charge from fast charging. That initial high boost rate is an observation made by several reviewers. It will open high and drop back to a sustainable level. Plus, cold is a mighty foe of charging rate. More about the charging curve::

 

[Columbiaskier]

Thanks @Voltz. As per my above note this happens even when the truck is at a 50% state of charge. So say I arrive at 47%, after 5 minutrs, I will be at 50% and the truck charge rate will drop down from 130 to only 30 kW.

It was 0 C when this happened the other day. If that’s the charge rates we get at 0 C, then that’s not too good. Where I live it can be that temp in the morning at any point from mid fall to late spring.

As for what the station is displaying. At the electrify I was at it just shows the charge rate. Doesn’t appear to show what the truck is requesting.

 

[R.I.P.]

0c is very cold for the battery to try to charge. Even 9c is far too cold to take a heavy charge. A Tesla will start preconditioning its battery 15 minutes out even at 70° f. It wants the battery 80°+ for optimal charge rates.

Nobody has been able to demonstrate yet that the Ford is preconditioning appropriately. It is the most likely suspect for slow charge rates at temperatures below 70° f.

 

[Txxthie]

Are you exclusively DCFC charging or what is your charging regime (AC vs DC ). -32C or -25F is seriously 😳 cold and any EV will have problems accepting a charge even with DCFC preconditioning. It sounds like you battery is cold gating, as mentioned in other posts. If traveling try to start with a warm battery and if you DCFC every 2-3 hours, the battery will stay warm. It’s amazing how Ford press shots showed Lightnings in cold snowy weather, but truthfully they are ill equipped to handle it. No DCFC preconditioning or use of heat pumps.

 

[R.I.P.]

Are you exclusively DCFC charging or what is your charging regime (AC vs DC ). -32C or -25F is seriously 😳 cold and any EV will have problems accepting a charge even with DCFC preconditioning. It sounds like you battery is cold gating, as mentioned in other posts. If traveling try to start with a warm battery and if you DCFC every 2-3 hours, the battery will stay warm. It’s amazing how Ford press shots showed Lightnings in cold snowy weather, but truthfully they are ill equipped to handle it. No DCFC preconditioning or use of heat pumps.

"Warm" is relative. I am on a cross-country trip, and whereas the temperatures are not all that bad, the Tesla model Y that I am driving is preconditioning hard before every charge. Even after 10 or 12 hours of pretty constant driving.

Without really good preconditioning routines, EVs are just not going to charge very well in the cold. Tesla's have heating/cooling coils that run in between the cells, so they are running with a heating/cooling advantage over most other EVs.

 

[Columbiaskier]

0c is very cold for the battery to try to charge. Even 9c is far too cold to take a heavy charge. A Tesla will start preconditioning its battery 15 minutes out even at 70° f. It wants the battery 80°+ for optimal charge rates.

Nobody has been able to demonstrate yet that the Ford is preconditioning appropriately. It is the most likely suspect for slow charge rates at temperatures below 70° f.

Thanks @R.I.P. for the response. Maybe it is the cold. Just to provide some more information, I had just completed a 1 hour trip.

I’m pretty new to this EV stuff but I would have thought if it was a cold issue, wouldn’t it go pretty quickly to the low charge rate? I wouldn’t have thought it would draw130 kW for 5 minutes before dropping charge rate?
Also I tested and if I stop charging and then restart charging it will go back up to 130kW. Again after 5 minutes charge rate drops.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Thanks @R.I.P. for the response. Maybe it is the cold. Just to provide some more information, I had just completed a 1 hour trip.

I’m pretty new to this EV stuff but I would have thought if it was a cold issue, wouldn’t it go pretty quickly to the low charge rate? I wouldn’t have thought it would draw130 kW for 5 minutes before dropping charge rate?
Also I tested and if I stop charging and then restart charging it will go back up to 130kW. Again after 5 minutes charge rate drops.

The charge curve on the Lightning hits the battery with a few minutes of high power before ramping down. A drop after the first few minutes of charging is normal.

 

[R.I.P.]

Thanks @R.I.P. for the response. Maybe it is the cold. Just to provide some more information, I had just completed a 1 hour trip.

I’m pretty new to this EV stuff but I would have thought if it was a cold issue, wouldn’t it go pretty quickly to the low charge rate? I wouldn’t have thought it would draw130 kW for 5 minutes before dropping charge rate?
Also I tested and if I stop charging and then restart charging it will go back up to 130kW. Again after 5 minutes charge rate drops.

It is a factor of the chemistry of the batteries. In super generic terms, there are electrons that are easy to move, and electrons that are harder to move. The easy ones can be moved quickly with high voltage, but when it gets to the harder electrons things slow down very fast unless the battery is warm. I recommend googling "why cold lithium batteries resist a charge" for some very in-depth white papers on the subject if you are a nerd like me and enjoy reading that type of thing.
🤓

 

[Columbiaskier]

I am. Thanks again @R.I.P. Will do.

 

[Patrick johnson]

Welcome to the forum

snaptube vidmate​

 

[Columbiaskier]

It is a factor of the chemistry of the batteries. In super generic terms, there are electrons that are easy to move, and electrons that are harder to move. The easy ones can be moved quickly with high voltage, but when it gets to the harder electrons things slow down very fast unless the battery is warm. I recommend googling "why cold lithium batteries resist a charge" for some very in-depth white papers on the subject if you are a nerd like me and enjoy reading that type of thing.
🤓

Follow up question on this. If the battery is only charging fast for the first 5 minutes because some electrons are easier to move and some are harder to move, then why can I get a fast charge rate again by just stopping the charger, then plugging in again for 5 minutes? Effectively I can get a 130 kW charge for 20 minutes by just continuously repeating the above procedure. I have done this successfully and added approx 33% to my battery.

My guess is that the charge controller on the lighting is choosing to charge at a lower rate (30 kW) after 5 minutes for another reason. That has to be either an error, or an attempt to protect the battery.

 

[R.I.P.]

Follow up question on this. If the battery is only charging fast for the first 5 minutes because some electrons are easier to move and some are harder to move, then why can I get a fast charge rate again by just stopping the charger, then plugging in again for 5 minutes? Effectively I can get a 130 kW charge for 20 minutes by just continuously repeating the above procedure. I have done this successfully and added approx 33% to my battery.

My guess is that the charge controller on the lighting is choosing to charge at a lower rate (30 kW) after 5 minutes for another reason. That has to be either an error, or an attempt to protect the battery.

The BMS is programmed to accept a charge rate that the battery will accept. Many battery chemistries can accept a high rate for a few minutes, before things happen that could damage them.

Short circuiting this programing by unplugging/replugging, essentially starting this clock again may be defeating this protection mechanism that is built in.

This could be bad for the health and longevity of your pack. I have not seen the code in Ford's BMSs, I am just speaking to generalities here. From what I have seen, Ford is using some pretty dated tech and code, so it may be clock-based rather than the more comprehensive battery health monitoring systems that are becoming the standard. In this case, you really are just resetting the clock, and not doing your pack any favores at all.

 

[Columbiaskier]

Thanks @R.I.P. Makes sense to me that it might be a time based thing and understood I probably should avoid doing this and just let the Lightning do it’s thing. When in a time crunch the other day, restarting to get my charge rate up was a bit too tempting. I may inquire with Ford just for curiosity on what they say. I’m sure they’ll make their charging a little smarter as time goes on.