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2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning Lariat ER
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is a great set of cold weather strategies posted by Mach-Lee on the Mach E Forum:

I’d like to make a couple important points and share some charging strategies based on my testing results. The advice here is centered around this mantra for cold climates:

Keep the Mach-E plugged in as much as possible when the temperature is below freezing so the battery stays warm.

Why? Range is proportional to battery temperature, so you can gain range by simply heating the battery. Charging speed at a DC fast charger is also much faster with a warmer battery. And third, you stay warmer. Heat is in short supply at colder temps, so you want to use power from the wall to get your battery and cabin warmed up as much as possible before leaving.

Goal: Keep the battery above 0ºC/32ºF at all times while it is in use (driving or charging).

This is the minimum temperature for acceptable performance of a lithium battery. It only take a few kilowatts to heat up the pack. The small increase in cost is usually worth the extra performance and increased comfort.

Biggest Misconception: “I don’t have a set schedule so I can’t use Departure Times.”

Yes you can! The battery stays warm for a long time after preconditioning, for 2-6 hours. Therefore you don’t need to worry about leaving exactly at a departure time if you don’t have a set schedule. Just set one sometime in the morning or afternoon. It’s okay to not leave at a departure time, you’re still benefiting yourself later on.

Tip: You can heat JUST THE BATTERY by setting a departure time in the FordPass app and setting the cabin temperature setting to OFF:

Font Screenshot Logo Circle Number


There are two levels of battery heating:
  1. Staying on plug will keep the battery 0-5ºC (just above freezing), and will only heat during preferred charging times. The battery will periodically heat itself. Just plug in!
  2. Setting a departure time will heat the battery to 15ºC before warming the cabin. This will keep the battery above freezing for several hours even if you don’t depart at the departure time.
Note: A 15 minute remote start is not long enough to fully heat the Mach-E cabin in very cold weather. It requires more like 30 minutes to warm up. You can extend the remote start (+15 min) or set a departure time to get a full cabin warm up.

Note: 120V charging will still heat the battery, but very SLOWLY. The heater power is limited to about 1 kW (equal to input power) while charging on 120V. This is 6x slower than L2. As a result, battery heating can take up to 2-3 hours if the battery is very cold. Likewise preconditioning is also very slow, so the battery and cabin may not be fully heated after a 120V preconditioning event. In very extreme cold, the battery may never be able to warm up fully on L1 charging even while drawing power 24/7. If you live in a cold climate, I strongly recommend you charge with 240V so you have the full 6 kW heater power available.

Mach-Lee Battery Warming/Charging Strategies:

[These all require to you be plugged in.]

-Strategy A - Just stay plugged in

This is the easiest way to keep the battery somewhat warm. It doesn’t require much thinking or any programming. When you get home (or to work) just plug in your car (do this everyday). The Mach-E will keep the battery above freezing. Works similar to a block heater on an ICE.

-Strategy B - Regular departure times

If you leave for work at a regular time, then set regular departure times. If you can charge at work, then set a second departure time for when you shift ends.

-Strategy C - Battery-only departure + Remote start ✱Mach-Lee Preferred 👍

This is best if you don’t have a set schedule. Imagine a 3-6 hour window around times you might usually leave, and pick the time at the beginning of that window. For example, if you usually leave in the afternoon, you might pick noon. Then the battery will be reasonably warm and ready throughout the day. Make a departure time in the FordPass app with that time and set the cabin heating to OFF. Then when you’re ready to leave, remote start the vehicle. The battery will still be somewhat warm from the departure time hours prior. If you don’t know what times, use 7AM and 2PM.

I strongly recommend the above combination of a recent battery-only departure time + remote start when you are ready to leave.

-Strategy D - Irregular departure times

If you don’t have a set schedule, but can plan ahead 20-60 minutes, then just set a departure time in the FordPass app about 30 minutes in advance. This is better than nothing. The battery will heat a little bit and the cabin will warm up the best it can in the available time.

-Strategy G - Park in a heated garage

If you have the luxury, you can do this and not have to plug in. In winter climates I recommend you keep your garage at about 5ºC/40ºF to save energy, and use remote start before leaving.

-Strategy I - Drop charge rate to prolong charging

If you have an adjustable rate L2 EVSE, you can drop the charge rate down (e.g. 16A) to prolong charging. The battery is kept warm while L2 charging, so charging can be used as a heating strategy. You can make the car charge all day, therefore it's ready to drive all day. Just bump the amps back up above 26A before remote starting so you can cover the heater demand.

-Strategy Z - Delay charging until before departure

This one is special because it involves the manipulation of charging times. It works best if you charge the about same amount each day and leave around the same time. Rather than having your car charge in the evening, push your preferred charge times back so the charging window will start in the early AM (4AM), but early enough that charging will usually finish by the time you normally leave. Make the charge window as narrow and late as possible. Charge and go will eliminate standby heating losses, so it's the most efficient of all the strategies if you are concerned about saving every possible kWh.

Notice Remote Start is not a warming strategy, because it doesn't warm the battery! (Just the cabin.)

The charging strategies (I+Z) are between strategy A and departure times in terms of effectiveness. Departure times can be added to them to increase effectiveness.

If you are taking a trip with DCFC stops, I strongly recommend you set a departure time at the beginning of each day so the battery is warmer when you get to the first DCFC stop. This will speed up your charging times. Stopping at a DCFC every hour or two will help keep the battery warm for the whole trip. Turning the HVAC completely off for DCFC does dramatically improve the battery heating if you can tolerate it. The battery cannot be heated very much while the HVAC is on.

In terms of battery levels, I recommend keeping it in the usual 20-90% range year round. Remember 100% is only for trips, don't let it sit at 100%. Some people may want to bump up their charge levels in the winter to account for worse efficiency. Again, plug in as often as possible.


In summary, please install a 240V charger and adopt one of these warming strategies if you live in a winter climate. A lot of people don't recognize the importance of plugging in and the usefulness of departure times, and how they positively impact battery performance, range, and available heat. Last, a lot of people don't seem to understand that the battery stays warm for hours after a departure time, so setting one is still useful even if you don't leave at the prescribed time. The option to shut cabin heating off and just warm the battery with a strategic departure time is also underutilized.
 

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2021 Mustang Mach E First Edition, 2016 Nissan Leaf, 2003 Toyota Tacoma, F-150 Lightning Lariat ER
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
I'll note that much of this is consistent with suggestions found in this great, recent video from Tom Moloughney on State of Charge:
 

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Nice list!

My charger is a Level 2 48Amp Tesla Wall Connector. I live in CT, don't have access to a garage, and I drive 40-50 miles a day.

I use Strategy I - Drop charge rate to prolong charging & Strategy Z - Delay charging until before departure in combination.

I charge at 20amps and for 4 hours prior to my departure in the morning. I precondition cabin from the app 5-10 mins prior to leaving depending upon frost, etc.
 

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This is a great set of cold weather strategies posted by Mach-Lee on the Mach E Forum:

I’d like to make a couple important points and share some charging strategies based on my testing results. The advice here is centered around this mantra for cold climates:

Keep the Mach-E plugged in as much as possible when the temperature is below freezing so the battery stays warm.

Why? Range is proportional to battery temperature, so you can gain range by simply heating the battery. Charging speed at a DC fast charger is also much faster with a warmer battery. And third, you stay warmer. Heat is in short supply at colder temps, so you want to use power from the wall to get your battery and cabin warmed up as much as possible before leaving.

Goal: Keep the battery above 0ºC/32ºF at all times while it is in use (driving or charging).

This is the minimum temperature for acceptable performance of a lithium battery. It only take a few kilowatts to heat up the pack. The small increase in cost is usually worth the extra performance and increased comfort.

Biggest Misconception: “I don’t have a set schedule so I can’t use Departure Times.”

Yes you can! The battery stays warm for a long time after preconditioning, for 2-6 hours. Therefore you don’t need to worry about leaving exactly at a departure time if you don’t have a set schedule. Just set one sometime in the morning or afternoon. It’s okay to not leave at a departure time, you’re still benefiting yourself later on.

Tip: You can heat JUST THE BATTERY by setting a departure time in the FordPass app and setting the cabin temperature setting to OFF:

View attachment 5441


There are two levels of battery heating:
  1. Staying on plug will keep the battery 0-5ºC (just above freezing), and will only heat during preferred charging times. The battery will periodically heat itself. Just plug in!
  2. Setting a departure time will heat the battery to 15ºC before warming the cabin. This will keep the battery above freezing for several hours even if you don’t depart at the departure time.
Note: A 15 minute remote start is not long enough to fully heat the Mach-E cabin in very cold weather. It requires more like 30 minutes to warm up. You can extend the remote start (+15 min) or set a departure time to get a full cabin warm up.

Note: 120V charging will still heat the battery, but very SLOWLY. The heater power is limited to about 1 kW (equal to input power) while charging on 120V. This is 6x slower than L2. As a result, battery heating can take up to 2-3 hours if the battery is very cold. Likewise preconditioning is also very slow, so the battery and cabin may not be fully heated after a 120V preconditioning event. In very extreme cold, the battery may never be able to warm up fully on L1 charging even while drawing power 24/7. If you live in a cold climate, I strongly recommend you charge with 240V so you have the full 6 kW heater power available.

Mach-Lee Battery Warming/Charging Strategies:

[These all require to you be plugged in.]

-Strategy A - Just stay plugged in

This is the easiest way to keep the battery somewhat warm. It doesn’t require much thinking or any programming. When you get home (or to work) just plug in your car (do this everyday). The Mach-E will keep the battery above freezing. Works similar to a block heater on an ICE.

-Strategy B - Regular departure times

If you leave for work at a regular time, then set regular departure times. If you can charge at work, then set a second departure time for when you shift ends.

-Strategy C - Battery-only departure + Remote start ✱Mach-Lee Preferred 👍

This is best if you don’t have a set schedule. Imagine a 3-6 hour window around times you might usually leave, and pick the time at the beginning of that window. For example, if you usually leave in the afternoon, you might pick noon. Then the battery will be reasonably warm and ready throughout the day. Make a departure time in the FordPass app with that time and set the cabin heating to OFF. Then when you’re ready to leave, remote start the vehicle. The battery will still be somewhat warm from the departure time hours prior. If you don’t know what times, use 7AM and 2PM.

I strongly recommend the above combination of a recent battery-only departure time + remote start when you are ready to leave.

-Strategy D - Irregular departure times

If you don’t have a set schedule, but can plan ahead 20-60 minutes, then just set a departure time in the FordPass app about 30 minutes in advance. This is better than nothing. The battery will heat a little bit and the cabin will warm up the best it can in the available time.

-Strategy G - Park in a heated garage

If you have the luxury, you can do this and not have to plug in. In winter climates I recommend you keep your garage at about 5ºC/40ºF to save energy, and use remote start before leaving.

-Strategy I - Drop charge rate to prolong charging

If you have an adjustable rate L2 EVSE, you can drop the charge rate down (e.g. 16A) to prolong charging. The battery is kept warm while L2 charging, so charging can be used as a heating strategy. You can make the car charge all day, therefore it's ready to drive all day. Just bump the amps back up above 26A before remote starting so you can cover the heater demand.

-Strategy Z - Delay charging until before departure

This one is special because it involves the manipulation of charging times. It works best if you charge the about same amount each day and leave around the same time. Rather than having your car charge in the evening, push your preferred charge times back so the charging window will start in the early AM (4AM), but early enough that charging will usually finish by the time you normally leave. Make the charge window as narrow and late as possible. Charge and go will eliminate standby heating losses, so it's the most efficient of all the strategies if you are concerned about saving every possible kWh.

Notice Remote Start is not a warming strategy, because it doesn't warm the battery! (Just the cabin.)

The charging strategies (I+Z) are between strategy A and departure times in terms of effectiveness. Departure times can be added to them to increase effectiveness.

If you are taking a trip with DCFC stops, I strongly recommend you set a departure time at the beginning of each day so the battery is warmer when you get to the first DCFC stop. This will speed up your charging times. Stopping at a DCFC every hour or two will help keep the battery warm for the whole trip. Turning the HVAC completely off for DCFC does dramatically improve the battery heating if you can tolerate it. The battery cannot be heated very much while the HVAC is on.

In terms of battery levels, I recommend keeping it in the usual 20-90% range year round. Remember 100% is only for trips, don't let it sit at 100%. Some people may want to bump up their charge levels in the winter to account for worse efficiency. Again, plug in as often as possible.


In summary, please install a 240V charger and adopt one of these warming strategies if you live in a winter climate. A lot of people don't recognize the importance of plugging in and the usefulness of departure times, and how they positively impact battery performance, range, and available heat. Last, a lot of people don't seem to understand that the battery stays warm for hours after a departure time, so setting one is still useful even if you don't leave at the prescribed time. The option to shut cabin heating off and just warm the battery with a strategic departure time is also underutilized.
Good stuff, thanks!
 

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This is a great set of cold weather strategies posted by Mach-Lee on the Mach E Forum:

I’d like to make a couple important points and share some charging strategies based on my testing results. The advice here is centered around this mantra for cold climates:

Keep the Mach-E plugged in as much as possible when the temperature is below freezing so the battery stays warm.

Why? Range is proportional to battery temperature, so you can gain range by simply heating the battery. Charging speed at a DC fast charger is also much faster with a warmer battery. And third, you stay warmer. Heat is in short supply at colder temps, so you want to use power from the wall to get your battery and cabin warmed up as much as possible before leaving.

Goal: Keep the battery above 0ºC/32ºF at all times while it is in use (driving or charging).

This is the minimum temperature for acceptable performance of a lithium battery. It only take a few kilowatts to heat up the pack. The small increase in cost is usually worth the extra performance and increased comfort.

Biggest Misconception: “I don’t have a set schedule so I can’t use Departure Times.”

Yes you can! The battery stays warm for a long time after preconditioning, for 2-6 hours. Therefore you don’t need to worry about leaving exactly at a departure time if you don’t have a set schedule. Just set one sometime in the morning or afternoon. It’s okay to not leave at a departure time, you’re still benefiting yourself later on.

Tip: You can heat JUST THE BATTERY by setting a departure time in the FordPass app and setting the cabin temperature setting to OFF:

View attachment 5441


There are two levels of battery heating:
  1. Staying on plug will keep the battery 0-5ºC (just above freezing), and will only heat during preferred charging times. The battery will periodically heat itself. Just plug in!
  2. Setting a departure time will heat the battery to 15ºC before warming the cabin. This will keep the battery above freezing for several hours even if you don’t depart at the departure time.
Note: A 15 minute remote start is not long enough to fully heat the Mach-E cabin in very cold weather. It requires more like 30 minutes to warm up. You can extend the remote start (+15 min) or set a departure time to get a full cabin warm up.

Note: 120V charging will still heat the battery, but very SLOWLY. The heater power is limited to about 1 kW (equal to input power) while charging on 120V. This is 6x slower than L2. As a result, battery heating can take up to 2-3 hours if the battery is very cold. Likewise preconditioning is also very slow, so the battery and cabin may not be fully heated after a 120V preconditioning event. In very extreme cold, the battery may never be able to warm up fully on L1 charging even while drawing power 24/7. If you live in a cold climate, I strongly recommend you charge with 240V so you have the full 6 kW heater power available.

Mach-Lee Battery Warming/Charging Strategies:

[These all require to you be plugged in.]

-Strategy A - Just stay plugged in

This is the easiest way to keep the battery somewhat warm. It doesn’t require much thinking or any programming. When you get home (or to work) just plug in your car (do this everyday). The Mach-E will keep the battery above freezing. Works similar to a block heater on an ICE.

-Strategy B - Regular departure times

If you leave for work at a regular time, then set regular departure times. If you can charge at work, then set a second departure time for when you shift ends.

-Strategy C - Battery-only departure + Remote start ✱Mach-Lee Preferred 👍

This is best if you don’t have a set schedule. Imagine a 3-6 hour window around times you might usually leave, and pick the time at the beginning of that window. For example, if you usually leave in the afternoon, you might pick noon. Then the battery will be reasonably warm and ready throughout the day. Make a departure time in the FordPass app with that time and set the cabin heating to OFF. Then when you’re ready to leave, remote start the vehicle. The battery will still be somewhat warm from the departure time hours prior. If you don’t know what times, use 7AM and 2PM.

I strongly recommend the above combination of a recent battery-only departure time + remote start when you are ready to leave.

-Strategy D - Irregular departure times

If you don’t have a set schedule, but can plan ahead 20-60 minutes, then just set a departure time in the FordPass app about 30 minutes in advance. This is better than nothing. The battery will heat a little bit and the cabin will warm up the best it can in the available time.

-Strategy G - Park in a heated garage

If you have the luxury, you can do this and not have to plug in. In winter climates I recommend you keep your garage at about 5ºC/40ºF to save energy, and use remote start before leaving.

-Strategy I - Drop charge rate to prolong charging

If you have an adjustable rate L2 EVSE, you can drop the charge rate down (e.g. 16A) to prolong charging. The battery is kept warm while L2 charging, so charging can be used as a heating strategy. You can make the car charge all day, therefore it's ready to drive all day. Just bump the amps back up above 26A before remote starting so you can cover the heater demand.

-Strategy Z - Delay charging until before departure

This one is special because it involves the manipulation of charging times. It works best if you charge the about same amount each day and leave around the same time. Rather than having your car charge in the evening, push your preferred charge times back so the charging window will start in the early AM (4AM), but early enough that charging will usually finish by the time you normally leave. Make the charge window as narrow and late as possible. Charge and go will eliminate standby heating losses, so it's the most efficient of all the strategies if you are concerned about saving every possible kWh.

Notice Remote Start is not a warming strategy, because it doesn't warm the battery! (Just the cabin.)

The charging strategies (I+Z) are between strategy A and departure times in terms of effectiveness. Departure times can be added to them to increase effectiveness.

If you are taking a trip with DCFC stops, I strongly recommend you set a departure time at the beginning of each day so the battery is warmer when you get to the first DCFC stop. This will speed up your charging times. Stopping at a DCFC every hour or two will help keep the battery warm for the whole trip. Turning the HVAC completely off for DCFC does dramatically improve the battery heating if you can tolerate it. The battery cannot be heated very much while the HVAC is on.

In terms of battery levels, I recommend keeping it in the usual 20-90% range year round. Remember 100% is only for trips, don't let it sit at 100%. Some people may want to bump up their charge levels in the winter to account for worse efficiency. Again, plug in as often as possible.


In summary, please install a 240V charger and adopt one of these warming strategies if you live in a winter climate. A lot of people don't recognize the importance of plugging in and the usefulness of departure times, and how they positively impact battery performance, range, and available heat. Last, a lot of people don't seem to understand that the battery stays warm for hours after a departure time, so setting one is still useful even if you don't leave at the prescribed time. The option to shut cabin heating off and just warm the battery with a strategic departure time is also underutilized.
One of the most comprehensive lists I've seen. Pre-conditioning is so crucial in cold weather to get the most out of the range.
 

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Does this apply to temps above 40°? I live in San Diego so I’m wondering if preconditioning is even necessary for me until I visit colder climates on rare occasions?

BTW, great write-up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Does this apply to temps above 40°? I live in San Diego so I’m wondering if preconditioning is even necessary for me until I visit colder climates on rare occasions?

BTW, great write-up.
Technically yes but it won't make an appreciable difference. Charging warms the battery to around 5°C (41°F). Preconditioning warms the battery to around 15°C (59°F).
 
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It was 15 degrees where I live and just keeping the charger plugged into my truck with no departure times set, the truck didn't use any power at all to keep the battery warm in 24 hours. From what I have seen, leaving it plugged in will only help keep it charged and use power only to precondition the cabin/battery if its set. It will not from what I have seen use power to keep the battery warm by just leaving it plugged in.
 

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It was 15 degrees where I live and just keeping the charger plugged into my truck with no departure times set, the truck didn't use any power at all to keep the battery warm in 24 hours. From what I have seen, leaving it plugged in will only help keep it charged and use power only to precondition the cabin/battery if its set. It will not from what I have seen use power to keep the battery warm by just leaving it plugged in.
When I reserved a lightning I had hopes that Ford had learned a lot from the Mach-E process, and would correct some of the things that concerned me in that pack. I have been building packs and making mistakes for decades, giving me a ton of hands-on when it comes to what contributes to pack failure/degradation. I either built, designed, or contributed to the battery/BMS designs in the Zap, Zen, Barefoot, Zero, Sparrow and others, as well as hundreds of one-off conversions. We sold EVs world-wide from what started as a little dealership in Grants Pass, Oregon between the time GM killed the EV1 and the time they came back with the Volt.

Circa 2000 GM sued me because my BMS design was too close to thiers. I take that as a compliment, and of course did not have the horsepower to go up against general Motors in a patent fight.

I post this information just in case there are those that are looking as closely to the tech as I am, and basing decisions on the answers. Decisions on which vehicle to drop $100k on. That said, consider this screen grab:
Font Terrestrial plant Darkness Brand Graphics

This screen grab illustrates what a 2015 Spark EV is doing plugged into a ChargePoint Flex EVSE at about 32 degrees fahrenheit. Mind you, this is "old tech" for GM, as this is a 10-year-old pack design (The Spark EV was introduced in 2013 for the 2014 model year). If drivers are not seeing this kind of maintenance pull with the Lightning, this is a problem. Combined with the mistake of sandwiched pouch cells and one of the poorest cooling designs I have seen in any vehicle beyond the Leaf, I have been officially spooked away from the Lightning. I really like the truck, and like a lot of what Ford did with it, but I genuinely feel they have made some bad rookie mistakes with the pack and pack management.

I have no doubt that Ford will fix this. I predict that disappointing pack life will drive a redesign at some point. Tesla learned a ton in the early years, and there are a lot of things they changed over the years. Rivian and BMW, among others, are trying to not reinvent the wheel by unabashedly copying Tesla's pack designs.

The Rivian R1T is a pretty close competitor for the Lighting, so it is fair to compare what they are doing with their packs. They are using the 2170 cylindrical cells, a design directly stolen from Tesla. Cells are foam isolated from one-another, again, like a Tesla. Rivian's pack conditioning architecture is good (yep, they copied Tesla). Unless there is a hidden gremlin in there that I am missing, their pack should last a good long time.

GM's Ultium design includes pouch isolation and better cooling than the Volt, Spark EV and Bolt packs. They learned that hot spotting of sandwiched pouches led to early pack death.

I guess I will drive a Rivian until the Denali starts coming off the line. I like the Lightning better, but I just do not trust that the Ford pack is going to have a long, happy life. :cry:
 

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When I reserved a lightning I had hopes that Ford had learned a lot from the Mach-E process, and would correct some of the things that concerned me in that pack. I have been building packs and making mistakes for decades, giving me a ton of hands-on when it comes to what contributes to pack failure/degradation. I either built, designed, or contributed to the battery/BMS designs in the Zap, Zen, Barefoot, Zero, Sparrow and others, as well as hundreds of one-off conversions. We sold EVs world-wide from what started as a little dealership in Grants Pass, Oregon between the time GM killed the EV1 and the time they came back with the Volt.

Circa 2000 GM sued me because my BMS design was too close to thiers. I take that as a compliment, and of course did not have the horsepower to go up against general Motors in a patent fight.

I post this information just in case there are those that are looking as closely to the tech as I am, and basing decisions on the answers. Decisions on which vehicle to drop $100k on. That said, consider this screen grab:
View attachment 5505
This screen grab illustrates what a 2015 Spark EV is doing plugged into a ChargePoint Flex EVSE at about 32 degrees fahrenheit. Mind you, this is "old tech" for GM, as this is a 10-year-old pack design (The Spark EV was introduced in 2013 for the 2014 model year). If drivers are not seeing this kind of maintenance pull with the Lightning, this is a problem. Combined with the mistake of sandwiched pouch cells and one of the poorest cooling designs I have seen in any vehicle beyond the Leaf, I have been officially spooked away from the Lightning. I really like the truck, and like a lot of what Ford did with it, but I genuinely feel they have made some bad rookie mistakes with the pack and pack management.

I have no doubt that Ford will fix this. I predict that disappointing pack life will drive a redesign at some point. Tesla learned a ton in the early years, and there are a lot of things they changed over the years. Rivian and BMW, among others, are trying to not reinvent the wheel by unabashedly copying Tesla's pack designs.

The Rivian R1T is a pretty close competitor for the Lighting, so it is fair to compare what they are doing with their packs. They are using the 2170 cylindrical cells, a design directly stolen from Tesla. Cells are foam isolated from one-another, again, like a Tesla. Rivian's pack conditioning architecture is good (yep, they copied Tesla). Unless there is a hidden gremlin in there that I am missing, their pack should last a good long time.

GM's Ultium design includes pouch isolation and better cooling than the Volt, Spark EV and Bolt packs. They learned that hot spotting of sandwiched pouches led to early pack death.

I guess I will drive a Rivian until the Denali starts coming off the line. I like the Lightning better, but I just do not trust that the Ford pack is going to have a long, happy life. :cry:
You would think with all the "Keep it plugged in" things from Ford, that there would be a better reason why, but not that I've seen. Here's one of the days where I plugged it in after it told me to due to conditions, and let it sit. Where it starts back up at the end is where I remote started it in the app. Nothing in between to keep the battery warm.

Font Slope Parallel Terrestrial plant Science
 

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It was 15 degrees where I live and just keeping the charger plugged into my truck with no departure times set, the truck didn't use any power at all to keep the battery warm in 24 hours. From what I have seen, leaving it plugged in will only help keep it charged and use power only to precondition the cabin/battery if its set. It will not from what I have seen use power to keep the battery warm by just leaving it plugged in.
If batteries need to be above a certain temperature (from what I've read 15º is too low) and if is plugged in, then I would think the system would heat up the battery to maintain health. Is it possible that the original charge was enough to keep it above a safe temp before your estimate? Also, is this a longer term analysis or a one-off? I would think Ford is well versed in battery health and either your analysis is missing something or their system has a flaw.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.
 

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If batteries need to be above a certain temperature (from what I've read 15º is too low) and if is plugged in, then I would think the system would heat up the battery to maintain health. Is it possible that the original charge was enough to keep it above a safe temp before your estimate? Also, is this a longer term analysis or a one-off? I would think Ford is well versed in battery health and either your analysis is missing something or their system has a flaw.

Just trying to get to the bottom of this.
It was in the low 20's when I plugged it in that night. It was done charging to my set percentage around 11:30 (around 2 hours after I plugged it in). It sat all night in the teens plugged in and the next day I remote started it around 3:30 pm as you can see the spike at the end of the graph. You can see it sat all that time in the teens and 20's plugged in and never pulled any power to condition the batteries until I told it to. Seems like a flaw in their BMS programming to me.
 

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It was in the low 20's when I plugged it in that night. It was done charging to my set percentage around 11:30 (around 2 hours after I plugged it in). It sat all night in the teens plugged in and the next day I remote started it around 3:30 pm as you can see the spike at the end of the graph. You can see it sat all that time in the teens and 20's plugged in and never pulled any power to condition the batteries until I told it to. Seems like a flaw in their BMS programming to me.
Yeah, that may be the case. A couple of follow-ups...
Has that happened before or is this a one-time observation?
How are you tracking electricity drawing...Through your electric company?
 

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You would think with all the "Keep it plugged in" things from Ford, that there would be a better reason why, but not that I've seen. Here's one of the days where I plugged it in after it told me to due to conditions, and let it sit. Where it starts back up at the end is where I remote started it in the app. Nothing in between to keep the battery warm.

View attachment 5506
I don't know, I see some very slight "bumps" in that line. I do see some slight draws in power, telling me it is activating some heating. Remember, your charging pull is far greater than that of the little Spark, so it is going to shrink your small draw spikes by comparison... but unless it is a result of my first bloody mary, I sure think I see some draw there...
 

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Yeah, that may be the case. A couple of follow-ups...
Has that happened before or is this a one-time observation?
How are you tracking electricity drawing...Through your electric company?
I've been watching it on my chargepoint app since they put that statement out there to see if it did anything to keep the batteries warm on its on.
 

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I don't know, I see some very slight "bumps" in that line. I do see some slight draws in power, telling me it is activating some heating. Remember, your charging pull is far greater than that of the little Spark, so it is going to shrink your small draw spikes by comparison... but unless it is a result of my first bloody mary, I sure think I see some draw there...
There are some very slight bumps, but I think its just the relay on the charger seeing if the truck needs anything. During those few times it only pulled 0.04 kw for a couple of seconds. I would think that's hardly enough to do anything.
 

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See? Those little bumps are power draws. Not much, but the Lightning would not need much. The heating coils are under the pack. Terrible for cooling, but perfect for heating, and I interpret those bumps as doing just that.
 

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I don't know, I see some very slight "bumps" in that line. I do see some slight draws in power, telling me it is activating some heating. Remember, your charging pull is far greater than that of the little Spark, so it is going to shrink your small draw spikes by comparison... but unless it is a result of my first bloody mary, I sure think I see some draw there...
Now that you mentioned it, the total usage in that pictured time frame says 16.9 kWh used but the two large bumps in the graphs add up to about 12-13 kWh used, so those small bumps along the way may be providing small bursts of electricity equaling the rest of the 3 to 4kWh.
 

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There are some very slight bumps, but I think its just the relay on the charger seeing if the truck needs anything. During those few times it only pulled 0.04 kw for a couple of seconds. I would think that's hardly enough to do anything.
Hum. Ok, yeah, that is pretty low. I was hoping. :confused:
 

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Now that you mentioned it, the total usage in that pictured time frame says 16.9 kWh used but the two large bumps in the graphs add up to about 12-13 kWh used, so those small bumps along the way may be providing small bursts of electricity equaling the rest of the 3 to 4kWh.
ah... NICE. Yes. That should be plenty to keep the pack out of danger. (y)
 
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