[208]

I know Ford is aware of the problem. I know Jim and others are trying to fix it. I will just leave this here (in case they are reading) as fuel on this fire.

I went to the closest Ford dealer this week to see their demo that just arrived. Mock Ford, in Grants Pass Oregon. The truck was amazing, but it was an incredibly disappointing experience because of the dealer's practices and attitude. After trying to nail the salesman down on ADM, the sales manager finally came out and smugly told me ADM was $8,000 to $15,000 over MSRP (I guess depending on their mood at the moment). His air of superiority was a stench that filled the room as he told me "nobody will get one of these without paying at least that, anywhere. Other dealers are getting $25,000, so you are lucky you are dealing with us".

No, I am certainly not dealing with them. I will never give my money to thugs like them, I don't care how much I like the truck. I will go to a different manufacturer. There will soon be competition, but the stink this dealer leaves on the brand will not soon fade.

Fortunately, this is not the dealer I have my reservation through (although a family member does). I guess we will see how they act when my number is called, but if it is anything like Mock Ford, I will be seen driving a Chevy, another Tesla, a GMC or a Rivian... but NEVER a Ford.

Are you listening Jim?

 

[Ford Thunder]

Dealership stance with supply shortage is take-it-or-leave it.

With the supply issue vs high demand going into 2nd year, this situation and the high initial reservation numbers for EV have gone into this dealer's head.

But always customers eventually win in the end. A Ford dealer in Southern California was ruined by succession of bad reviews.

 

[THEsocalledfan]

I know Ford is aware of the problem. I know Jim and others are trying to fix it. I will just leave this here (in case they are reading) as fuel on this fire.

I went to the closest Ford dealer this week to see their demo that just arrived. Mock Ford, in Grants Pass Oregon. The truck was amazing, but it was an incredibly disappointing experience because of the dealer's practices and attitude. After trying to nail the salesman down on ADM, the sales manager finally came out and smugly told me ADM was $8,000 to $15,000 over MSRP (I guess depending on their mood at the moment). His air of superiority was a stench that filled the room as he told me "nobody will get one of these without paying at least that, anywhere. Other dealers are getting $25,000, so you are lucky you are dealing with us".

No, I am certainly not dealing with them. I will never give my money to thugs like them, I don't care how much I like the truck. I will go to a different manufacturer. There will soon be competition, but the stink this dealer leaves on the brand will not soon fade.

Fortunately, this is not the dealer I have my reservation through (although a family member does). I guess we will see how they act when my number is called, but if it is anything like Mock Ford, I will be seen driving a Chevy, another Tesla, a GMC or a Rivian... but NEVER a Ford.

Are you listening Jim?

Reminder for the family member.....as long as they have not ordered, once they get the opportunity to order, they can switch dealers and allocation goes with them. Just DON'T place the order until the change is made....

Honestly, I think Jim is doing a great job taking down an antiquated model. Not the type of thing you can fix quickly.

 

[2023 lighting]

It's a supply and demand economy.
Dealers have (almost) always made big profits. Have you ever known the owner of a car dealership? They become very wealthy. They have a unique license to sell a certain product in a competition limited environment. Further protected by State laws. It's been the case for decades.

BUT Right now it's 2022. Change is in the air. All these EV startups have shown up. Some will fail miserably, some will struggle, some will thrive. The barrier to entry is lower than it's been in 100 years. Going forward the big 3 are going to have to keep their belts tightly fastened or they'll loose their pants and shirt. Same goes for traditional dealerships. Online dealing like carvana, vroom, will be mainstream as will direct from manufacturers like Tesla.

Heck, the certainty of car ownership in the future is in question. On demand rental or lease may become mainstream.

Fortunately a new Era is coming in.

 

[Ford Thunder]

It's a supply and demand economy.
Dealers have (almost) always made big profits. Have you ever known the owner of a car dealership? They become very wealthy. They have a unique license to sell a certain product in a competition limited environment. Further protected by State laws.

Online dealing like carvana, vroom, will be mainstream as will direct from manufacturers like Tesla.

Heck, the certainty of car ownership in the future is in question. On demand rental or lease may become mainstream.

Fortunately a new Era is coming in.

And Tesla's no-dealership model.

Although states' Congress down South are banning the spread of the Tesla's direct sale model.

 

[FM_Jack]

I know Ford is aware of the problem. I know Jim and others are trying to fix it. I will just leave this here (in case they are reading) as fuel on this fire.

I went to the closest Ford dealer this week to see their demo that just arrived. Mock Ford, in Grants Pass Oregon. The truck was amazing, but it was an incredibly disappointing experience because of the dealer's practices and attitude. After trying to nail the salesman down on ADM, the sales manager finally came out and smugly told me ADM was $8,000 to $15,000 over MSRP (I guess depending on their mood at the moment). His air of superiority was a stench that filled the room as he told me "nobody will get one of these without paying at least that, anywhere. Other dealers are getting $25,000, so you are lucky you are dealing with us".

No, I am certainly not dealing with them. I will never give my money to thugs like them, I don't care how much I like the truck. I will go to a different manufacturer. There will soon be competition, but the stink this dealer leaves on the brand will not soon fade.

Fortunately, this is not the dealer I have my reservation through (although a family member does). I guess we will see how they act when my number is called, but if it is anything like Mock Ford, I will be seen driving a Chevy, another Tesla, a GMC or a Rivian... but NEVER a Ford.

Are you listening Jim?

Chevy/GMC dealers are mocking up the Hummer into the 200k range. One of the first reservation holders walked out. Why is this so unique to Ford? In my area there are a lot of "chain" dealers. I know one to the east of me, their sales guys either rotated or left on what seemed like a yearly basis.

I can understand the frustration with the negative aspects of a dealership experience. I don't know how that is unique to Ford. It isn't Ford proper that can really do anything about it either. It is your state. That's what Elon was fighting against, the state laws. It had nothing to do with the manufacturer. WV just passed some laws that kill Tesla/Rivian from selling there I believe.

Raptor, TRX, Hummer, Maverick, Bronco, Hellcat, GT500, Jeep 392 and eventually the Silverado EV, Lyriq EV will and are marked up somewhere. My coworker wants to get a Raptor but won't pay MSRP and he's contacted so many dealers. The only thing that can be said that contributes to this is the reservation aspect of this "new" process. But who is actually to blame for that? Elon (only insomuch that he used the model for lower mass produced cars rather than high end niche products like Ferraris)

 

[Ministry]

Unfortunately its not just dealers - plenty of owners here, including these forums, that know the market value of this truck and have no issue flipping it for 10-30k over what they paid.

We still have a ways to go with this archaic dealership structure but I applaud what Ford has done with their reservation system (baby steps) to be able to put this great truck into the hands of many for MSRP.

 

[208]

Chevy/GMC dealers are mocking up the Hummer into the 200k range. One of the first reservation holders walked out. Why is this so unique to Ford? In my area there are a lot of "chain" dealers. I know one to the east of me, their sales guys either rotated or left on what seemed like a yearly basis.

I can understand the frustration with the negative aspects of a dealership experience. I don't know how that is unique to Ford. It isn't Ford proper that can really do anything about it either. It is your state. That's what Elon was fighting against, the state laws. It had nothing to do with the manufacturer. WV just passed some laws that kill Tesla/Rivian from selling there I believe.

Raptor, TRX, Hummer, Maverick, Bronco, Hellcat, GT500, Jeep 392 and eventually the Silverado EV, Lyriq EV will and are marked up somewhere. My coworker wants to get a Raptor but won't pay MSRP and he's contacted so many dealers. The only thing that can be said that contributes to this is the reservation aspect of this "new" process. But who is actually to blame for that? Elon

Oh, I am fully aware that this is not unique to Ford! I am just venting because of my experience this week with Ford.

We have a local Chevy dealer that has used the Tesla model themselves for many years. In 25 years they have never paid anybody commission, their staff is all salary. They sell MSRP across the board for everything, even Corvettes.

There is also a Ford dealer that's almost that good, and that is where my Lightning reservation is. I am hoping they will stand by MSRP pricing, but if not I have a reservation for a Silverado EV.

Yes, also totally agree that Farley is doing everything in his power to change things from the top. But at the end of the day, the real power lies in our hands. Our naughty and nice list needs to be adopted on a wider scale, and the word spread on who we, as consumers want to do business with.
😎

 

[GDN]

This is why you need to be fighting the dealership protection laws. Many of these guys are multi-millionaires and very wealthy and sadly seem they don't give a crap about us.

I'm all about a mark up in a free enterprise world, but those that point to private party sales, that is different. With dealerships, you cannot buy the product from Ford, only the dealership. The dealership knows he will get vehicles and he can sit on them and screw the purchaser because you can't get it directly from Ford. If anyone could buy it directly from Ford then that would be different, but that isn't what we have here.

There is much analysis that goes into costing and pricing and MSRP. Ford is letting these guys earn $4K to $9.2K on every one of these sold and they don't have to do a thing except smile and be nice to the guy picking it up, but they can't even do that.

 

[joeclark38]

Unfortunately its not just dealers - plenty of owners here, including these forums, that know the market value of this truck and have no issue flipping it for 10-30k over what they paid.

This, so much this. Price gouging is happening by both dealers and third-party sellers who took a spot in line just so they could flip these trucks for tens of thousands above MSRP (on top of the federal EV tax credit that later reservation holders are unlikely to ever get). People trash dealers left and right - and rightfully so - but let's not lose sight of the fact that it's not just dealers who are being greedy.

 

[greatbreweh]

I am fortunate in Ontario my dealer said absolutely they are selling to me at msrp only and did not agree with marking it up, Thank you to my dealer for this.

 

[GDN]

I am fortunate in Ontario my dealer said absolutely they are selling to me at msrp only and did not agree with marking it up, Thank you to my dealer for this.

I had an agreed upon MSPR sale too, but that doesn't mean it is hassle free from the dealer.

 

[CDT]

Unfortunately its not just dealers - plenty of owners here, including these forums, that know the market value of this truck and have no issue flipping it for 10-30k over what they paid.

We still have a ways to go with this archaic dealership structure but I applaud what Ford has done with their reservation system (baby steps) to be able to put this great truck into the hands of many for MSRP.

What have they done with their reservation system? Are you talking about the name matching thing? Because I’m going to get gouged and every time I bring up money and try to pin the dealership down on just paying the already absurd MSRP, lower than some more than others, they go silent. The salesman at the dealer I’m working with said the owners of the chain wanted to quote prioritize locals. Asking locals to pay 7K over MSRP isn’t a good business model and if I were to hazard a guess I would say they just found people like me who were further down the reservation list and they thought would be willing to pay to get to the front of the line. I was planning on transferring my reservation to another dealership because I knew this dealership and every other Ford dealership within 50 miles is shady.
I need another vehicle for various reasons and I was really excited to get into an electric truck. but this experience has soured me on the truck and I’m not sure if I even want it at this point. If Ford can’t keep track of my truck during the shipping process how well can they support this new product?
Tesla was great in the beginning but their lack of customer service is maddening now. We canceled our model X order because of their lack of commitment to people who had ordered a marquee product.

 

[ChasingCoral]

And Tesla's no-dealership model.

Although states' Congress down South are banning the spread of the Tesla's direct sale model.

Most of those laws protecting dealerships have been around for decades.

IIRC you still can't buy Teslas built in the Austin gigafactory anywhere in Texas.

 

[Eclectic]

Only way to go right now is to find a dealer that will take your reservation at MSRP with a $500 deposit. If they get it on the lot for resale, they can charge whatever non-reservation holders want to pay. Until the supply problems disappear, demand is going to raise prices. Making a MSRP deal and waiting a year is only way to avoid ADM in this market.
Dealers, who jump thru Ford 7 hoops, are making 10% of MSRP:
2022 Ford Lightning Invoice Pricing Is Totally Weird

 

[macdirk]

Reminder for the family member.....as long as they have not ordered, once they get the opportunity to order, they can switch dealers and allocation goes with them. Just DON'T place the order until the change is made....

Honestly, I think Jim is doing a great job taking down an antiquated model. Not the type of thing you can fix quickly.

On the reservation page there is a number to call to change your dealer. Have your family member look into it now. My dealer has said they do not charge any markup over msrp, and says they are willing to put it in writing. Take the time now before you get invited to order to find the right dealer, or at least attempt to. If your unsure of your dealers position, ask them now. Good luck!

 

[jefrank]

Definitely change dealers. My original choice wouldn't even respond to my questions about ADM so I switched to another dealer that assured me that they wouldn't add on anything beyond the $230 document fee they'd disclosed. Sure enough, even when I ended up getting my truck early because I was able to get someone else's order that ended up not being delivered to the original buyer, they still held to their no ADM stance and sold it to me at MSRP. Anyone who's looking for a fair deal should hook up with Chad ("Duckie") at Preferred Ford in Grand Haven, Michigan. Well worth the trip across the state (2.5 hour drive) for me to deal with them!

 

[FM_Jack]

Definitely change dealers. My original choice wouldn't even respond to my questions about ADM so I switched to another dealer that assured me that they wouldn't add on anything beyond the $230 document fee they'd disclosed. Sure enough, even when I ended up getting my truck early because I was able to get someone else's order that ended up not being delivered to the original buyer, they still held to their no ADM stance and sold it to me at MSRP. Anyone who's looking for a fair deal should hook up with Chad ("Duckie") at Preferred Ford in Grand Haven, Michigan. Well worth the trip across the state (2.5 hour drive) for me to deal with them!

They are they are switching the business between gas and EVs

 

[Maddog]

Reminder for the family member.....as long as they have not ordered, once they get the opportunity to order, they can switch dealers and allocation goes with them. Just DON'T place the order until the change is made....

Honestly, I think Jim is doing a great job taking down an antiquated model. Not the type of thing you can fix quickly.

Just try to switch dealerships! I did try! Never did succeed . Ford are you listening? The situation is so nt good among your various divisions - marketing, and operations aren't in sync ....and dealers totally out of the loop. I finally got my fabulous F-150 Lightning from a dealership that was 600 miles away where I lived when I made the reservation 20 months earlier. The dealership was assigned to me on line, despite on line offers to change the dealership, there was no way to do it, in spite of multiple escalations. The dealership experience was just the worst, I really can't say anything good about the experience. Too bad, because I love the truck but can't recommend.

 

[jimfigler]

I get so confused when someone brings an old post back from the dead.