[renelopez50]

The proposed EV tax credit in the US Senate applies to 2022 Lightnings. The cap is set at $80,000, like a Lariet.
Does the Platinum not qualify because it costs more? No. It sounds like you get the full $7500 at the cap. amount and as you go down in price the tax credits also decreases Anybody out there with other ideas or similar questions please post up.

 

[Art p]

The proposed EV tax credit in the US Senate applies to 2022 Lightnings. The cap is set at $80,000, like a Lariet.
Does the Platinum not qualify because it costs more? No. It sounds like you get the full $7500 at the cap. amount and as you go down in price the tax credits also decreases Anybody out there with other ideas or similar questions please post up.

This won’t go to into effect until 2023 if the bill passes. If you you enter into a contract this year but don’t get delivery until next year, there is a transition option so you would still get the 7500 tax credit even on a platinum lightening,

 

[Voltz]

Nothing has changed

If you you enter into a contract

I haven't seen the definition of a contract yet. Does the ordering process meet the definition? I hope so.

 

[Western]

I think the major difference is the credit can be applied at the "point of sale"...

 

[Art p]

Nothing has changed
I haven't seen the definition of a contract yet. Does the ordering process meet the definition? I hope so.

That is a good question. It will depend on how the IRS interprets the statute if it passes.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Here's a link to the bill's text as it currently stands.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

Summaries of key parts are found here:

Senate moves forward with EV tax credit reform; Tesla (TSLA) to be included back and more

The US Senate is going to move forward with a sweeping new bill after Senator Joe Manchin finally accepted to...

electrek.co

 

[renelopez50]

That is a good question. It will depend on how the IRS interprets the statute if it passes.

Check out the Electrek article, it references line numbers in the current Senate Bill. So, doesn't sound good for this year to get an instant credit on the Lightning and if your truck is greater than $80K then no credit next year. Thanks for your comments. Let me know what you think.
Electrek Article:

New Vehicle Credit

1. Manufacturer caps eliminated. (Page 370, line 15)
2. Credit applies for vehicles purchased beginning January 1, 2023. (Page 386, line 1).
3. Transition provision for EVs with written sales orders dated in 2022 prior to the date of President signing the bill but delivered in 2023 allows purchaser to claim the “old” credit in 2023. (Page 386, line 20).

Read the rest of the article below:

Senate moves forward with EV tax credit reform; Tesla (TSLA) to be included back and more

The US Senate is going to move forward with a sweeping new bill after Senator Joe Manchin finally accepted to...

electrek.co

 

[ChasingCoral]

Remember folks, this hasn't even been introduced in the Senate, much les the House. If you want this to pass, contact your elected representatives in both houses. If you want to see changes, tell them.

 

[renelopez50]

Remember folks, this hasn't even been introduced in the Senate, much les the House. If you want this to pass, contact your elected representatives in both houses. If you want to see changes, tell them.

I think it's OK to discuss future events in the Forum like this in order to plan things better for ourselves and this has already pass the House, reference the same article below;

Last year, the US House of Representatives passed the $1.9 trillion “Build Back Better” legislation, but it has been stuck in the divided Senate ever since.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I think it's OK to discuss future events in the Forum like this in order to plan things better for ourselves and this has already pass the House, reference the same article below;

Last year, the US House of Representatives passed the $1.9 trillion “Build Back Better” legislation, but it has been stuck in the divided Senate ever since.

Agreed. No discussion of political positions, etc. However, this is about how the government passes legislation.

Because the Senate will not be passing the bill the House introduced, the Senate bill will have to go to conference committee where there is input and negotiation between the House and Senate sides. For this reason, there is still opportunity for members of both houses to influence the final bill before it goes to the President for signature or veto.

 

[renelopez50]

Agreed. No discussion of political positions, etc. However, this is about how the government passes legislation.

Because the Senate will not be passing the bill the House introduced, the Senate bill will have to go to conference committee where there is input and negotiation between the House and Senate sides. For this reason, there is still opportunity for members of both houses to influence the final bill before it goes to the President for signature or veto.

My post isn't about how the government passes legislation. It was meant to discuss what qualifies and what doesn't, that's all.

 

[Voltz]

Don't count your Sinema before it hatches. There's a lot that can go wrong. Time to advocate for what you want or relax and watch the show.

As it stands right now, all Lightnings delivered through the end of 2022 will be eligible for the full federal tax credit.

 

[Ugleeual]

It should be based on the delivery date of the vehicle… nothing to do with when ordered.

 

[Voltz]

It should be based on the delivery date of the vehicle… nothing to do with when ordered.

If the current proposal passes, it will be based on delivery dates after 12/31/22.

 

[Ugleeual]

New Vehicle Credit

1. Manufacturer caps eliminated. (Page 370, line 15)
2. Credit applies for vehicles purchased beginning January 1, 2023. (Page 386, line 1).
3. Transition provision for EVs with written sales orders dated in 2022 prior to the date of President signing the bill but delivered in 2023 allows purchaser to claim the “old” credit in 2023. (Page 386, line 20).
4. Vehicle must be assembled in North America to qualify for new credit. (Page 366, line 15).
5. North American assembly requirement applies to vehicles sold after the date of adoption of the bill. (Page 386, line 3)
6. $7,500 credit is broke into two binary pieces meaning the vehicle either qualifies for each piece of the credit or it doesn’t. No longer based on size of battery. (Page 366, line 6)
7. $3,750 of the new credit is based upon the vehicle having at least 40% of its battery critical minerals from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the United States. This is a list of countries with free trade agreements with the US.(Page 371)
8. The other $3,750 of the new credit is based on at least 50% of the battery components of the vehicle coming from the United States or countries with a free trade agreement with the US. (Page 372, line 13)
9. The 40% minerals requirement increases to 50% in 2024, 60% in 2025, 70% in 2026 and 80% in 2027. (page 371 line 23)
10. The 50% battery components requirement increases to 60% in 2024, 70% in 2026, 80% in 2027, 90% in 2028 and 100% in 2029. (Page line 373)
11. The government has until the end of the year to develop guidance on the battery requirements. (Page 374)
12. Beginning in 2025, any vehicle with battery minerals or components from a foreign entity of concern are excluded from the tax credit. (Page 374, line 20).
13. One credit per vehicle. (Page 375, line 12)
14. Modified gross income limit of $150k for individuals, $225k for head of household, and $300k for joint returns. Definition of MAGI (page 375, line 22)
15. MSRP of vehicle must be $80k or less for SUVs, Vans and Trucks. $55k for all other vehicles. (Page 377, line 4)
16. Dealer can apply credit at time of sale. Dealer must disclose to buyer the MSRP of the vehicle, the applicable tax credit amount and the amount of any other available incentive applicable to the purchase. (Page 378, line 6)
17. Credit terminates December 31, 2032.

Used Vehicle Credit

1. Tax credit of 30% of value of used EV with $4,000 cap (Page 387, line 23).
2. Used vehicle must be at least two model years old at time of sale. (Page 389, line 7).
3. The original use of the vehicle must have occurred with an individual other than the one claiming the used tax credit. (Page 389, line 10).
4. Used vehicle must be purchased from a dealer. (Page 390, line 3).
5. Used vehicle price must be $25k or less. (Page 390, line 5).
6. Used vehicle qualifies for tax credit only once in its lifetime. (Page 390, line 7)
7. Purchaser must be an individual (no businesses) to qualify for used credit. (Page 390, line 14).
8. Purchaser may only claim one used vehicle credit per three years. (Page 390, line 20).
9. Modified gross income cap of $75k for individuals, $112,500 for head of household and $150k for joint returns. (Page 388).
10. Credit may be applied at time of sale by dealer. (Page 391, line 15).
11. Credit terminates on December 31, 2032. (Page 391, line 12).

 

[Brew]

This is not better than what we have currently, which is one of the reasons they're allowing some people to claim the old benefit even if they receive it in the 2023. There's a concept in law making that it's assumed the law will not be pointless. Seems odd to think of it this way, but if you're looking at a law and reading it in a way that the law seems pointless then it's being read incorrectly. If the new plan was better all around no one would choose that option and it wouldn't be offered.

For example, one of the main things people seem excited about is receiving the credit at point of sale. In some states, like CA, that effectively reduces the federal tax rebate by roughly 10% because it will be a taxed incentive. It also makes it so the dealership has control over how that incentive plays out--so they'll play games with how it appears on paper, play games with the selling price of the vehicle, and play games with who is/isn't eligible. Unless you're expected to pay it back if you don't actually qualify at the end of the year, I'm not even certain that provision will survive passing.

 

[Voltz]

If the new plan was better all around no one would choose that option and it wouldn't be offered.

The proposed transition period option will cover vehicles ordered before enactment, but delivered in 2023. They would qualify for the existing tax credit–even if they lose eligibility after 12/31/22, i.e., Hyundai/KIAGenesis, German-made VW ID.4, etc. The proposed option could theoretically benefit 2023 delivered Lightnings by taking the new full tax credit option when Ford will have probably transitioned into the existing law's phaseout period.

 

[Brew]

The proposed transition period option will cover vehicles ordered before enactment, but delivered in 2023, to qualify for the existing tax credit–even if they lose eligibility after 12/31/22, i.e., Hyundai/KIAGenesis, German-made VW ID.4, etc.

That's not a scenario that is going to occur so clearly the proposal is not tailored around that scenario.

What is real is that buyers of those EVs can opt for the current tax credit rather than the new proposal if they sign a binding purchase contract before the vehicle is delivered...or even manufactured (which dealerships don't do anyway so the entire conversation is moot). If the new proposal was better than the old tax law, it would never be opted for...therefore, if you are reading the new proposal as better than the old law you should read it more carefully because the assumption is that Congress will not pass a pointless law.

If the terms went before a judge for some reason, the judge would rule as I stated: that the old law had preferable terms or Congress would have not explicitly allowed for someone to opt for it.

 

[ATLJoker285]

This is not better than what we have currently, which is one of the reasons they're allowing some people to claim the old benefit even if they receive it in the 2023. There's a concept in law making that it's assumed the law will not be pointless. Seems odd to think of it this way, but if you're looking at a law and reading it in a way that the law seems pointless then it's being read incorrectly. If the new plan was better all around no one would choose that option and it wouldn't be offered.

For example, one of the main things people seem excited about is receiving the credit at point of sale. In some states, like CA, that effectively reduces the federal tax rebate by roughly 10% because it will be a taxed incentive. It also makes it so the dealership has control over how that incentive plays out--so they'll play games with how it appears on paper, play games with the selling price of the vehicle, and play games with who is/isn't eligible. Unless you're expected to pay it back if you don't actually qualify at the end of the year, I'm not even certain that provision will survive passing.

I think you hit the nail on the head.
Under the current plan, the 'pro' is when I get my $7500 at tax time I can spend it on what I want. The 'con' is I have to wait on my tax return.
Under the new plan, the 'pro' is the benefit is at point-of-sale. The 'con' is the entire $7500 goes to Ford.
From what I understand they both are tax incentives so at some point in the future (2023-2024) after all tax filings, you'll be in the same boat.

 

[THEsocalledfan]

I think you hit the nail on the head.
Under the current plan, the 'pro' is when I get my $7500 at tax time I can spend it on what I want. The 'con' is I have to wait on my tax return.
Under the new plan, the 'pro' is the benefit is at point-of-sale. The 'con' is the entire $7500 goes to Ford.
From what I understand they both are tax incentives so at some point in the future (2023-2024) after all tax filings, you'll be in the same boat.

If it would not "run out" I prefer the current system. Anytime the money goes to the vendors or middle men, that has more of a tendency to get "priced in" and makes it easier to raise the price from the dealer. The up front pain of the current system helps cool that.